Really? Name one aside from raid finder and that didn’t even come In until DS the last cata patch.
Cata plays closer to wotlk than it does retail.
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Cata is fun.
There I said it.
But if the people that hate retail and hate everything about it can’t possibly just play the game and have fun because because hating anything retail is their entire personality
Yeah, well I love Vanilla Questing. Still. My opinion of course, Vanilla Levelling and Questing is the best, TBC is OK as the Draenei zones are witty and the rest not made too speedy; Wraht is meh, 'specially in the last patch Classic version. From Cata onwards to BfA (I did not play further) it’s utter bullcrap.
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Hence…
I mean 
Cata changed the game forever. Retail 1.0
ilvl power creep was long before LFR
Power creep was 20x in Cata and then multiplied when LFR was added.
The power creep problem was specifically an issue that started in Cata as highlighted in the above posts.
It’s literally no comparison. You are just wrong.
wotlk is literally where it starts, it was such an issue that the original developer cited it as a mistake and they rectified it in classic by increasing the ilvl in ulduar to make ulduar relevant longer throughout the expac
we start wotlk with t7 25 man loot at 213-226 and end at 277-284 around a 64 ilvl jump from beginning to end.
Cata starts at 359 epic heroic gear and ends at 410-416 around a 51 ilvl jump. Lower than wotlk’s ilvl jump.
For context TBC goes from 120 (karazhan + t4) to 164 Sunwell a 44 ilvl jump.
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I really did laugh out loud on this. So you have no idea how item levels or power creep works.
Each item level is an exponential increase. That’s why we needed stat squishes. So an item going from 200-220 isn’t anywhere in the same ball park of an item going from 390-410.
20 item levels in Cata is = too 100 item levels in previous expansions in terms of power. Then it multiplicatively increases with the next 20 item levels and so on.
If the power creep was less in Cata and we only gained 5 character levels instead of the 10 from TBC to Wrath. Then Health pools would be 40-70k in Cata. 
This obviously isn’t the case.
Cata was the start of the power creep problem that exploded at the end with the new addition of another Raid tier in LFR. This catapulted us into MoP where it got out of control cause it added more item levels which are exponential in growth. (these multiplicative power increases from gear are also multiplicative with the new talents and class design)
The biggest issue I have with Vanilla questing is drops. I have to farm 100 pigs to get 10 pig snouts, and yet I pull swords, shields, pets, potions, maces, out of the pigs rear end but 90% of them are snoutless somehow 
when you make up your own data you can claim whatever you want.
Have fun with that
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I’m just explaining how the power creep works. You either can understand how exponential growth in item levels works which are multiplicative with class design or you don’t.
Nothing you are saying is a good argument and I just proved it to be false. If what you are saying is true then in Cata we would have the 40-70k Health pools. Which we don’t cause you are wrong and not understanding power creep.
I suggest you do some research on power creep or item level stat increases and you might understand the problem more clearly. This is why stat squishes happen cause of exponential item level growth. Then they needed to do a character squish.
Go look at an 813 item level item. It’s mind boggling how many stats it has. Cause item levels have exponential growth. So with Cata gear as items get into the 400’s it’s exponential power compared to Wrath and this is multiplicative with new talents design.
When Pre-Patch dropped I got a few 1,000 HP just for loggin in and going to the trainer and learning plate specialization.
Cata was the start of extreme power creep. It was Retail 1.0. The addition of LFR compounded the problem for future expansions. That’s just the way it is and history.
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You hit’em too hard
That actually is one of the things I like as well, the guraranteed increase in percentages per drop if you did not get what you needed, really spoiled my fun. Wht’s the fun in FINALLY getting that dastard gem, when you know it’s not your virtue, perseverrance or even luck; it’s just game mechanics handing it to you on a silver platter?
so the ilvl creep wasn’t as high in cata but somehow this isn’t evidence of it occuring earlier.
Ok let’s look at dps.
Wotlk started out with the top dps in phase 1 patchwerk to 12,356.2 dps
We ended ICC with 30,309.9 on Deathbringer Saurfang in 4.5 as the #1 dps
(~2.45 times more)
Let’s look at Cata now pservers don’t really split dmg between phases so looking at top dps with ilvls that match roughly what drops in T11 let’s see what we get
35, 049 - 43, 969 on Maloriak for ilvls that are close to t11 values
Ultraxxion Dragon soul the top dps recorded at any period is 99, 214
(~2.25 times more)
that’s not a 20x bigger power creep, that’s a reduction comparatively.
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Yes this was explained since item levels go up exponentially in power. I can link that again for you.
Obviously 20 item levels at 200 isn’t the same as 20 ilvls at 400 or the same at 800 in terms of stat increases. Cause it’s an exponential increase. This is why they need to do stat squishes to bring the item levels back down.
- A good way to look at it is like compound interest. The item levels keep compounding their increases on each other which leads to exponential power.
First off Raids or fights aren’t a metric of power. They also can’t be used as each fight has different mechanics, adds etc.
This is why we are talking about item levels, class design and health pools which you are deflecting from. This is how you talk about power creep. This is why stat squishes were needed.
You just aren’t bringing up any valid points or responding to the factual information I’ve provided. You are wrong because in Cata we don’t have 40-70k Health pools. Your math is wrong. You aren’t accounting for exponential growth in power from higher item levels which is multiplicative with talents and class design.
Power creep exploded in Cata and why the power creep is so massive going into MoP. I’m not going to repeat myself anymore. Starting to feel like I’m talking to the wall. Cata is Retail 1.0. It was the start of everything.
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Not really looking for 100% drop rate, but the drops should be more than say 30 or 40% at least. Rares I could see it may take a while (thought that one quest in Ashenvale is horrid)
That’s not quite accurate. Before vanilla launched, hunters didn’t have mana - they had a focus bar really close to what they have now. This was removed during the WoW beta in favor of mana because focus SUCKS. It sucked then, and the devs knew it, and it SUCKS now.
Here’s just one example of how hard focus SUCKS:
Going to Terrorweb Tunnel to work on the guild achievement critter kill squad as a focus hunter SUCKS even more than killing 50,000 critters normally would. Playing a normal hunter that sane devs developed would look something like, switch on AOV and volley your way back and forth through the tunnel until you decide to quit. That’s it.
With focus your multishot is your AOE. It takes a target, unlike volley where you can just blow and go. And since you can’t tab target a critter this means you have to manually target a teeny spider or w/e. Fire off your multi. Then you get to do that one more time. Then you’re out of focus so you can either hang around and wait for it to regen or manually target a single critter and use steady shot.
It SUCKS. The OG devs knew this. That’s pretty much why they said, “Yeah guys let’s not do this it SUCKS.” It’s clunky, frustrating and time consuming. Anyone who claims focus is a better resource than mana is on some serious psychedelics.
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so focus sucks because of a critter kill achievement…?
The overwhelming number of hunters crying to go back to mana is …uh pretty small. And it isn’t because of a critter kill achieve
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WotLK maintained the look and feel of Classic, though implementing many progressive MMO features, such as LFD. That fully goes away with Cata. Cata is the first edition of the WoW rebuild. It feels very similar to retail in its style of play, so I’ve just abandoned the classic line for retail again, and SoD of course. Cata is just worse retail.
Then you aren’t paying attention. That being said, it doesn’t matter - fucus is clunky. There’s nothing good about it at all.
Way to miss the point that getting the achievement was crap because the class is crap.
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