Ybarra sale M+ runs?

[Baator-quelthalas]

@Pyri-shadowsong

usually when people say “service for real money” they mean that the provider of the service is receiving the real money. that’s not what’s happening here.

technically true, but the effects on the game are exactly the same.

@Hambamshock-illidan

People have been buying gold since before the token was even an idea

Yes, but it was not as easy as now, before you ran the risk of being scammed, and Blizzard does not provide any support (you could even be penalized for them), now it is Blizzard itself that stimulates this model since they are the ones who earn the money.

A game is not P2W or P2F because of the things that the community does outside at its own risk, it is when the company supports the use of real money in such a way that you can directly or indirectly use real money to advance through the content.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Baator-quelthalas

this is a necessity because the game punishes losses too much, in WoW you can’t go and learn the mechanics wipe after wipe is high, and the community has become too toxic to accept this form of play.

someone coming in blind, unwilling to put even 5 minutes reading a quick guide on the fight mechanics is disrespecting everyone else in the group who are most likely total strangers, then calling others toxic when they don’t tolerate that?

okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy

that “Form of play” is disrespectful and rude to the other people in the raid. how many times should a group of strangers be expected to wipe on a boss because some dude couldn’t be bothered to read a quick explanation of the fight? What about the next guy they bring in? should they wipe another 5 times so that guy can “learn as he goes”

crap like this is the reason people only invite experienced players to their pugs.

[Amanichico-sargeras]

Lol say that next time you run with a group where every single one if the is boosted and have no idea how to play their class, spec, when to CDs, when to interupt, doesn’t knows mechanics, and wipe every 2 min due to people not knowing a thing.

Now tell me this does not still doesn’t anyone?

[Pyri-shadowsong]

@Amanichico-sargeras

Lol say that next time you run with a group where every single one if the is boosted and have no idea how to play their class, spec, when to CDs, when to interupt, doesn’t knows mechanics, and wipe every 2 min due to people not knowing a thing.

personally i just don’t join those groups. that’s just me though

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

Why would you run with such a group?

you can see people’s run history, or if you don’t want to look them up on the website, you can use the addon to see the number of runs.

players with just a few timed +15s and very few 10-14s are a red flag. avoid them.

I’d rather run with someone who has multiple +14s, than no timed 10-14s and 10 15s.

if we’re talking keys higher than a +15, on up and into the 20s, people should be familiar with checking this stuff.

[Avih-malganis]

You could literally pay gold for in-game services since the inception of the game.
Literally all games are like this.
There is nothing wrong with this…

What is the argument - that in-game currency can only be used for certain in-game services and/or goods?

If you wanted someone to help you kill a rare to get a mount – and they asked for 50 gold – should that be wrong too? What about opening a lock box – or 50g for a portal to somewhere from a mage? Like where do you draw the line?

[Baator-quelthalas]

you can literally buy gold for real money, so you can use your real money to buy a service, which is equal to a P2W or P2F. Also can use real money to buy BoEs.

[Hambamshock-illidan]

@Baator-quelthalas

but it was not as easy as now

Yes it was

@Baator-quelthalas

you ran the risk of being scammed, and Blizzard does not provide any support

Scamming is pretty low. These gold sellers are companies as well. Not a ton of money to be made if you scam your customers. I’m sure it happened, but it’s not really a problem. You got me on support though

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Baator-quelthalas

you can literally buy gold for real money, so you can use your real money to buy a service

we have literally always been able to do this.

the argument that it was “harder” pre-token? shenanigans. it was a trivial matter to pop over to susan express and buy some gold.

[Baator-quelthalas]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

we have literally always been able to do this.

the argument that it was “harder” pre-token? shenanigans. it was a trivial matter to pop over to susan express and buy some gold.

A game is not P2W or P2F because of the things that the community does outside at its own risk, it is when the company supports the use of real money in such a way that you can directly or indirectly use real money to advance through the content.

So, wow is a P2W/P2F, and this is wrong.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

it’s not p2w, no matter how many times you declare it so. you’ve won nothing by buying a run.

either way? it’s not changing. so you may as well come to terms with it, or, I suppose, expend this much energy arguing the definitions of things you won’t change.

blizz would be stupid to discontinue the token, and basically hand that income back over to the third party gold selling websites. absolutely, insanely, stupid.

[Baator-quelthalas]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

it’s not p2w, no matter how many times you declare it so. you’ve won nothing by buying a run.

You earn achievements, equipment, mount and complete the game content, does that sound like nothing to you?

@Annastasi-proudmoore

so you may as well come to terms with it

I cannot, it is a matter of principle, this is a business system that seeks to get the most money from the user in exchange for the least possible effort on the part of the company. The same as the 6-month subscription, which gives you a mount and then they leave you dry of content because they already have your money.

Accepting these types of business models leads to a lower $ value per playtime for the player, the acceptance of this does not affect only WoW but the entire video game market.

In wow it is even worse because it is not only P2W/P2F but also the work is not done by blizzard, the players do it while the company takes profits, it is like when they do not pay beta Testers and then complain about the feedback that players gives in beta.

Look where the WoW is, with a content drought and hundreds of thousands of people who have avandued it.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

blizz would be stupid to discontinue the token, and basically hand that income back over to the third party gold selling websites. absolutely, insanely, stupid.

True. That doesn’t mean that the practice isn’t destructive, however, regardless of whose pockets are gilded.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Baator-quelthalas

I cannot, it is a matter of principle

well, then you’re going to spend a lot of time frustrated over something that isn’t going to change. enjoy.

@Baator-quelthalas

The same as the 6-month subscription, which gives you a mount and then they leave you dry of content because they already have your money

If you don’t like the 6 month promotions, don’t purchase it.

@Baator-quelthalas

In wow it is even worse because it is not only P2W/P2F

except it’s not.

@Baator-quelthalas

Look where the WoW is, with a content drought and hundreds of thousands of people who have avandued it.

Can you explain how the token has anything to do with this?

[Amanichico-sargeras]

What of some Pau for ore than just a few runs like 10 to 30 runs?

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

that doesn’t happen in numbers large enough to be significant.

however, as always, the solution to m+ pug problems is to curate a friends list and, over time, lessen the dependence on pugging.

[Jibblës-dalaran]

Yeah, I tried getting into PvP in 9.0, but pugging your way through 3s is impossible now. I got to 1700 something on my pally, but literally could not progress because every other team I was up against had glad boosters in it.

@Hambamshock-illidan

I literally don’t even consider PvP as part of this game.

It’s been trash for a decade or more. If you want good, balanced, and fair PvP go play any of the dozens of games that focus on PvP

Literally the biggest non-argument to what this guy is talking about.

[Coldwyrm-stormrage]

That’s what’s happening to PVE. It’s becoming trash.

What is the percent of players who run high end content in WoW? How are WoW subs doing?

Oh, that’s right. Activision/Blizzard is too busy hiding bad news from investors, and has been afraid to release those number for a long time.

November 2 earnings call should be a peach. I’d love it if things got shook up a bit, and the game took a turn for the better. I doubt it, but it would be nice.

[Frostyjawn-andorhal]

@Coldwyrm-stormrage

What is the percent of players who run high end content in WoW? How are WoW subs doing?

Biggest Lie players ever said about WoW regards how many people do high-end content. The answer is–not a lot.

[Perfidy-zangarmarsh]

@Youfancy-stormreaver

Selling boost has zero affect on the game.

So why not just eliminate the need for boosts? Give everyone full 259 mythic+ gear from a vendor. I mean why not? Is there a big difference between AFKing in a boost run and walking up to a vendor? Let’s remove any connection between skill / effort and achievements.

Hopefully anyone with common sense can see the problem. Boosting turns the game from one where achievements are based on skill, to one where achievements are based on how many loot boxes (aka WoW Tokens) you purchase with IRL money. Mythic gear isn’t cosmetic. It’s a path to other achievements in PvP and PvE.

That’s the definition of P2W, and it’s despicable that a Bliz exec is publicly advertising boost services. The guy an idiot. He’s surely making well into six figures, plus RSU, etc. When you’re in that position you don’t even touch on the perception of disputed behavior, even if it’s technically not disallowed.