Ya Know.. Looking Back...A lot Could Have Been Avoided if

Community General Discussion
101

Covenants killed the expansion for me. Once I get my RBG stuff done, I’m out.

For PvE and - as of Tuesday - I now have to be Venthyr to keep up in damage when the gap was… tolerable before, arenas are about to get flooded by Venthyr warriors as well as they’re performing borderline one shots with exploiter.
For RBGs and wPvP, Kyrian - my favorite - was still okay and had some niche in arenas, but with the buffs to condemn on Tuesday, it’s likely I’m still being forced to swap.

I love the idea of covenant specefic abilities, but whoops, I want to grab Keystone Master sometime this patch, and PUGS don’t like it when you don’t play meta. RBG night is the same night as my guild’s keystone night, so guess I’m kind of screwed there because lolpugs minmaxing where it’s not needed.

I want to try to push for Gladiator/HoTA, but I’m already getting comments about Kyrian despite it being viable because it just makes things “easier”. My main RBG group is still debating if I should swap or not simply because of how stupidly overpowered condemn is about to be.

Already couldn’t play my hunter because it was Venthyr too, and it was non-stop whining the whole way to just 1800 on my shadow priest because he was Kyrian. Hurr durr mindgames so OPPPPP. Thank god I went for enchant on my warrior, or I’d likely haven’t been able to get into groups past that since I was pugging at the time.

You cannot have FOMO attached to difficult content and these sorts of choices at the same time. (The only truly difficult thing I’m trying for is HoTA/Glad when my friend brings his DK over to Alliance, but the majority of the playerbase finds stuff like KSM/heroic raids hard, and they matter more than the 1% - Mythic is luckily a non-factor for FOMO.)

The system has caused nothing but stress since the beta for me, and games aren’t supposed to be stressful.

I’d rather just play another game, and I’m starting to more and more - what little I do is just the same stuff I’ve been doing for years (battlegrounds) or old content so I don’t have to deal with this garbage system.

It’s even more obnoxious because we called how this’d be a huge issue for the low and mid tier on the beta, but they never listen. People who do nothing but push IO, CE, Glad, ect ect don’t usually care about the RPG elements of the game, so they don’t care they’re forced to make these choices, they chase what’s best no matter what, but frankly, they ain’t the majority, and we’re all starting to get more and more pissed off on the focus on them.

102

I made my class choice 10 years ago and now I deserve to struggle because Blizz decided to double down on garbage mentalities we begged them not to because everybody saw these issues coming?

Lolno.

Back to Pokemon, I guess.

1 Like
103

I’d play “what’s fun” if I wasn’t going for limited time rewards where min-maxing matters, bro.

104

only thing i’ve learned from this current dev team is overcomplication of everything which takes whole expansions to get right. sometimes just keeping things simple is so much better like covenants.

105

How does it invalidate your choice? You are still aligned with a specific covenant. You still have a specific Covenant Ability. You still have Specific Soulbinds. You still have Specific Transmogs. You still have specific content options available only to your covenant.

What part of being able to change the ability like a talent, invalidates your choice of covenant?

Again, I am not framing this as an argument. Just a question to better understand.

For some min maxing is fun. For some Transmog is fun. For some its PvP. For Some its Raids. For some its M+. For Some its Role Play For some its a combination. When you have systems that force one decision to negatively impact the other, it creates the issues I am bringing up, and that are unfortunately causing things to become an argument.

106

you’re not clearing world firsts, min-maxing shouldnt matter.

im sorry the community as a whole sucks that they feel you have to but you really dont

107

dumbest response i ever heard i guess hardly no one does world first so whatever they do to the game is okay.

108

What if say, instead of the Covenant Ability being aesthetically linked to the covenant, they were things our Class learned while doing the initial campaign? They were just framed as talents we discovered. All of the other aspects of the covenants remained the same.

Would that have any change to how you would feel about them?

109

again if my choice can be undone in 5 minutes at any point was it really a choice? By making me work months for that only to have people be able to pick it all up in 5 minutes, it invalidates months of work. if you dont see how that can demoralize players then idk what to really tell you.

also why should choices in games be taken back? its not like you can walk into an election IRL and be like sorry i changed my mind, change my vote to the other a-hole.

choices dont and shouldn’t work that way

110

If we travelled back in time and we got these as we went along, they would probably design the plot differently. By going by that theoretical yes.

What would be better and this would be an idea we could both agree on, is to have thematic versions of each ability instead. So condemn is still condemn but if you’re kyrian it is like a light strike, if you’re a maldraxi it’s like a death wind strike.

That way it still feels as though you’vs made your choice and provides that talent like decision you were going for. Would that be something you’d be keen for?

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111

The abilities are not 1% difference. Maybe for someone like you that hasn’t raided beyond normal raids or did more than 3 keys this expansion it doesnt make a difference. Those that push high content it does make a difference. For some classes a huge difference.

Try being a Fire Mage without having combust every minute because they didn’t want to be night fae and come back and tell me it was only a 1% dps loss. Try being a Frost mage that went Venthyr and would like to play the other specs but venthyr sucks for the two other specs. That is just one class. Druid night fae is completely busted and is gimp without convoke.

Don’t argue about systems that you don’t push because you misread some sim and think it’s fine. It’s not and as another poster said… you have no idea what you are talking about.

112

I agree with this, but while I was originally one to advocate for abilities being opened to all covenants, looking back I’d much prefer being able to freely swap covenants. It’d take like two seconds too. After SL they could become talents since they’re awesome abilities.

113

What exactly are you refering to? Renown? Reputation? None of that is undone by having the covenant class abilities be a talent row.

You still have all of this that you worked for and unlocked. And anyone who wants to unlock it, still has to do all of the work. You get your covenant ability right at the start. You dont have to progress far at all into any covenant campaign to use it.

You are comparing a choice in a video game to an election? What are you trying to say with this? What point are you making?

By this reasoning, it is safe to say that our spec or class should be locked per expansion. At the start of the expansion, we have to choose our class or spec and play that till the next expansion.

Because thats how elections work. You have to wait till the next one to vote again.

114

problem with that is then they need to work on visuals/balance for 400+ abilities

or just pick one ability for each spec/class, in which case which one do they pick?

im pretty sure i understand it alot more then you’re giving me credit for but keep on throwing a fit over a 1% difference

115

THIS. This right here. Allow us to choose the ability, but have the Covenant change how the ability looks. This would check my boxes.

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116

Visuals/names they’d only need to do once and yes it would be a lot of effort. Balance they’d have to do less of since you can choose (essentially say Elysian decree could be Condemnation of the wicked for Venthyr but have the same aura and effect as an example).

Well yeah I think that would tick the boxes for the ‘thematic/meaningful folk’ too. How would you imagine SBs to work?

117

renown unlocks upgrades to your coventant ability, again by unlocking the ability to all you make it so that grind was pointless.

again you’re saying let me take this one thing… whenever you can just rework your way through and not have to take that one thing. “let me just take this one mount out of your collection, you wont miss it and have hundreds of others”

id be fine with that, i normally dont chance spec unless people are in dire need of a tank. :man_shrugging: go figure people play differently then you

118

Umm we told you so!

ROFL

119

It does not. Those are Conduits. The soulbinds are gated by renown. And we would still get those conduits to drop. We would just get one for each ability.

And the soulbinds would unlock as we worked on the covenant we chose. The grind to fully unlocking all your soulbinds is still there, and tied to your specific covenant.

We currently have this. When you swap covenants you cannot use the covenant mount which you earned. You cannot use the transmog which you earned. This would all remain intact. And mounts and transmog are in no way tied to player performance or power.

Again. You are perfectly ok with people wanting to play the game how they want. But if they propose that the way they enjoy the game and want to play, runs contrary to how you play the game, they are wrong and shouldnt be able to play that way.

What kind of argument is this?

120

the same kind of argument that say “i like X ability” but “i like Y storyline” but i can only chose one… :thinking: :thinking: :thinking: “BOTH!”