it’s a party crit buff how is that not useful?
The " I WANT IT ALL, RIGHT NOW OR NOTHING" argument.
Except it is Not a 1% difference. You have warriors doing 50% of their damage with condemn. Take away Wild Spirits from a MM hunter. Take away Convoke from a Boomkin. Take away elysian decree from a VDH. Take away primordial wave from a Resto Shaman.
These are LARGE impacts on the specs. Top will sim out that 1%, but when you have abilities like Wild Spirits and Convoke which are defining those classes right now, you have a problem.
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Yeah, it was said over and over on beta and it was falling on deaf ears. Beta’s are not for suggestions or information anymore.
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In comparison to the venthyr ability the dps difference is staggering. That’s the problem.
Your argument that “all abilities have a use” is ridiculous. Certain covenants are far better than others. That’s a problem because it forces people to make a certain choice if they want to excel in raids/mythic whatever
and look how high execute is without that covenant ability, go on take a look
i thought all the pvp hunters went kyrain for the LoS cancel?
icyveins lists that an kindred as being about even 
in conclusion, just a bunch of whining
If they made the abilities another talent row, there wouldn’t be a need to swap covenants.
I’m all for pulling the ripcord, but only one of those is necessary, and personally I don’t care which.
It’s sad that the restrictions completely negate any “meaning” and there really doesn’t end up being any true choice. “Identity” also goes out the window.
#pulltheripcord
I’m someone who would love to have more traditional RPG and mmorpg elements added back into wow, but I don’t think the current covenants get anywhere close to being one of those features. The covenant system is extremely shallow and not only is it designed so that you don’t have to interact with the covenant very much, but it’s gated so that you can’t interact with the system very much. Then add on that most renown ranks unlock nothing of substance, the rewards include dozens of reskins , and it doesn’t really feel like you’re becoming a higher status member of the covenant despite literally saving their realm. Idk, just very underwhelming from an rp perspective. I find it very difficult to argue that the single class ability being locked behind a covenant is what makes it a good rpg system, because it’s not a particularly interesting system.
Choosing between aesthetic or performance may be a impactful choice, but It’s also not a particularly interesting one. Likely, most people already knew what they were going to pick the day it was announced at blizzcon. That’s not an interesting choice.
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What? Condemn is usable for 55% of a targets health if talented right. Execute is usable for 35%.
Condemn has nearly double the amount of uptime. Dude you have no clue what you’re talking about.
thank you for showing why its at the top 
Reasons to swap covenant would still exist.
Want to use a different Signature Covenant Ability.
Want to Use a different Transmog
Want to Complete another Campaign and see the Story.
Want to use a Different set of Soulbinds.
Want to experience a different covenant activity. Abom Factory or Venthyr Party ect.
Not even close to my gripes with the expansion at least.
You can’t pad metrics like that, boyo.
I refuse to accept the insistence on borrowed power systems as anything more than metric padding. This team is creatively bankrupt and can’t hold people’s attention without mobile game mechanics.
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That’s how it is with covenants and that’s the decision that they have wanted us to make. If it was a talent we would all swap it for every situation. There would be no reason to pick an covenant ability that sims/performs worse for no reason.
If you think that’s ok, that’s fine. But outside of cosmetics you’d be a Kyrian/Night Fae/Venthyr and that other one by name only.
@Quiztoc to play devils advocate the covenant abilities themselves do make a big difference. One that they are addressing however.
https://bloodmallet.com/chart/warrior/arms/soul_binds/castingpatchwerk
(To add to what kray is saying)
Agreed. On none of my characters did I pick the ability that I “preferred”, but only the one that simmed the best. Therefore I do not care about the mini-games or all the extra features that come with my covenants, because I do not relate to them at all.
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I think the real enemy is anima. Switch a covenant is one thing
Okay? Didn’t you state earlier that it doesn’t matter which covenant you use because they all have a use?
Thanks for deconstructing your own terrible arguments lmao.
it would have been nice however these covenant abilities are temp and will end with the new expansion
do you want a better execute? go Venthyr
do you want another reckless/partywide? go Necrolord
how is that too hard to udnerstand? make a choice depending on what you do and move on
Well I assume that the signature abilities would coincide with the talent choice, along with the soulbinds. The soulbinds would essentially just be embassadors to Oribos but would still only work with their respective covenant abilities.
The other items tie into the goal of “identity” which, while I don’t really care for, I don’t see as a problem. Roll an alt for the different stories - but for the love of all that’s holy, let players skip the intro quest line.