Some of my best memories from WoW are from dungeons, and it was always my favorite way to make levels go by. Why is grinding Warfronts and Islands alright, but not dungeons?
Finally hit 80 on this character, 60-80 really needs to be looked at. They barely changed the leveling speed in northrend. All of the quests give less XP than quests in azeroth. At 79 quests finally started giving the same amount of XP as quest in azeroth at level 55. Why is the quest XP so much lower in northrend? It makes no sense and needs to be fixed.
Leveling is the literal opposite of fun in the current design, this !@#$ is a complete slog. I have ESO on tab to keep my fking sanity, playing something I actually enjoy vs playing something I hate doing. I just want to be 120 so I can play the actual game but NAHHH Blizz is forcing all this FUN on me.
09/20/2018 09:49 PMPosted by MetricsLeveling is the literal opposite of fun in the current design, this !@#$ is a complete slog. I have ESO on tab to keep my fking sanity, playing something I actually enjoy vs playing something I hate doing. I just want to be 120 so I can play the actual game but NAHHH Blizz is forcing all this FUN on me.
When "FUN" is detected by Blizzard it gets nerfed quickly and quietly but things that aren't "FUN" and cause more time to level it is ignored.
Just posting to say i haven't forgotten about this issue and it still feel like garbage to level through dungeons. Since its been awhile heres some suggested fixes.
Move end of dungeons xp bonuses off the bosses so they are a reward like they used to be as it is now since they come from a kill they are subject to any level gap reductions. The way they worked for around 12 years before this was fine it did not need to be changed.
Buff heirlooms xp gain to account for the increased time to kill from scaling. taking awhile to kill things is fine as long as the xp reward is adjusted to this new time to kill. This is part of the reason dungeons feel so unrewarding its not worth the time after the first time and the quests are done,
These 2 things would make dungeon leveling an efficient viable way to level again. Why is group content so bad to use to level instead of solo questing through half dead zones?
Move end of dungeons xp bonuses off the bosses so they are a reward like they used to be as it is now since they come from a kill they are subject to any level gap reductions. The way they worked for around 12 years before this was fine it did not need to be changed.
Buff heirlooms xp gain to account for the increased time to kill from scaling. taking awhile to kill things is fine as long as the xp reward is adjusted to this new time to kill. This is part of the reason dungeons feel so unrewarding its not worth the time after the first time and the quests are done,
These 2 things would make dungeon leveling an efficient viable way to level again. Why is group content so bad to use to level instead of solo questing through half dead zones?
I used to love leveling with dungeons because it really encouraged you to use your whole toolkit and learn the class you were leveling, whether that be CC, defensive cooldowns, etc. You don't really need to use these abilities when your farming boars in dead PvE zones. So on top of being less fun, IMO, it's not really helping players improve.
My suggestion to Blizzard (assuming they're even monitoring this thread still):
- Invite 20 or so players to one of your dev offices. 10 brand new players, and 10 seasoned players who have already leveled characters before
- Watch both groups level characters and hear their feedback. You will see that they two groups of people have different wants/needs/reactions
- Find ways to make system changes that will appease both groups without hurting the other one. Sure, we don't want new players to one-shot all mobs. That isn't fun. But neither is slogging through the same quests for returning players
- Make dungeon leveling viable again
- Look at giving an account a stackable XP buff for every max level character they have
Just some thoughts. You guys are creative, so I have no doubt you can fix this issue.
My suggestion to Blizzard (assuming they're even monitoring this thread still):
- Invite 20 or so players to one of your dev offices. 10 brand new players, and 10 seasoned players who have already leveled characters before
- Watch both groups level characters and hear their feedback. You will see that they two groups of people have different wants/needs/reactions
- Find ways to make system changes that will appease both groups without hurting the other one. Sure, we don't want new players to one-shot all mobs. That isn't fun. But neither is slogging through the same quests for returning players
- Make dungeon leveling viable again
- Look at giving an account a stackable XP buff for every max level character they have
Just some thoughts. You guys are creative, so I have no doubt you can fix this issue.
I used to love leveling with my spouse and friends, sometimes with same level characters, sometimes with high/low.
Leveling is so unpleasant now, it's no longer enjoyable.
I wish scaling had been optional, or at least applied to the player not the content.
My toons feel very weak and unfun. At least they have backed off a bit on the GCD since all toons are now playing "better" than they were.
Leveling is so unpleasant now, it's no longer enjoyable.
I wish scaling had been optional, or at least applied to the player not the content.
My toons feel very weak and unfun. At least they have backed off a bit on the GCD since all toons are now playing "better" than they were.
I used to be a blizzard fanboy, I thought they could do no wrong as a developer .... boy was i wrong.
When they were at the top of their game i guess they didn't have to come up with shady techniques to make money, they had over 10 million people paying 15 bucks a month to play this game.
However, after loosing many subs because of stupid game design or massive content droughts they have chosen to exploit the fans of the game who have stuck with them.
What is happening to wow and the way they are treating the people who have been playing for years is really revolting and it makes me sick that i have played this game now for 14 years.
You can try and deny all that you want that what you did to levelling wasn't to increase 110 boost sales but we your once loyal fan base see right through your deception.
When they were at the top of their game i guess they didn't have to come up with shady techniques to make money, they had over 10 million people paying 15 bucks a month to play this game.
However, after loosing many subs because of stupid game design or massive content droughts they have chosen to exploit the fans of the game who have stuck with them.
What is happening to wow and the way they are treating the people who have been playing for years is really revolting and it makes me sick that i have played this game now for 14 years.
You can try and deny all that you want that what you did to levelling wasn't to increase 110 boost sales but we your once loyal fan base see right through your deception.
09/21/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Velara
I wish scaling had been optional, or at least applied to the player not the content.
[/quote]
That's the way they do it in Guild Wars 2, and it is MUCH better. I can play with any level friend and it's like I'm on-par with the zone rather than hitting things with a wet noodle. Unfortunately they will never implement a similar system, their egos won't allow it. Nope, they are just going to keep pushing their current ideology and game design on us until the game ultimately goes under.
Oh well.
09/21/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Kartoth09/21/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Velara
I wish scaling had been optional, or at least applied to the player not the content.
That's the way they do it in Guild Wars 2, and it is MUCH better. I can play with any level friend and it's like I'm on-par with the zone rather than hitting things with a wet noodle. Unfortunately they will never implement a similar system, their egos won't allow it. Nope, they are just going to keep pushing their current ideology and game design on us until the game ultimately goes under.
Oh well.
Yes, SWTOR does that as well and it works beautifully. I can help my friends level their lowbees without it being a faceroll.
I truly loathe that if you go into a WoW dungeon now, the mobs adjust to the level of each party member. This is awful for so many reasons. This type of level phasing worked well during the Legion pre-event in the outer world, but in a closed group it is terrible.
Would SO much prefer that my friends and I were adjusted to the level of the dungeon and we are all fighting the same level mobs. It only makes sense.
09/21/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Velara
Leveling is so unpleasant now, it's no longer enjoyable.
I wish scaling had been optional, or at least applied to the player not the content.
My toons feel very weak and unfun. At least they have backed off a bit on the GCD since all toons are now playing "better" than they were.
They should have added an NPC that you could talk to that would scale/unscale the zone. Let the phased zone decide. Personally, I'd rather outlevel a zone and feel like my character is getting stronger than have it scale as it does. The RPG aspect is completely gone. They should just scale everything so I can raid mythic+++ with my 112 and get gear scaled to my level. Progression is progression or it's scaled to where you're at. /opinion
Relax folks Ions got this he just has to focus on his knob mastery, hes been busy so hasnt been able to dial it in yet or maybe hes has been dialing in this excuse for past few months, once he gets around to it class specs should feel fun amd playing a role like dps will finally feel like you are killing quicker then the tank or healer specs...
Maybe ion should pick up the cost of lost subscribers due to his great visions...
Maybe ion should pick up the cost of lost subscribers due to his great visions...
I keep grinding rep and I don't know why. I've unlocked Dark Irons. If I gave enough of a crap to go grind WQs on my Horde DH I might be able to get to Revered with the Honorbound today (I do not give the aforementioned crap so it'll be tomorrow at the earliest). I'll have Mag'har in like... I dunno, 2-3 weeks depending on if I can be bothered to play.
...And then what? Level them through this slow-moving road where you can't even dungeon chain anymore? Player choice has been completely removed. You zone quest to level or you pay for a boost. Those are your only options now.
I've still only gotten 2 Allied Races to heritage armor level. I just can't bring myself to level alts anymore. It takes too long. I know it's to distract you from the fact that there's literally no content at 120 aside from grinding rep, especially if you hate dungeons/raids like I do, but god damn, at least try to hide that fact. Don't put signs up with neon, flashing lights.
I doubt I'll ever seriously level an alt again unless they get their heads out of their butts and fix the mess they've made. But that would require them to admit they made a mess in the first place, which Ion adamantly refuses to do. He's right, we're all wrong, and that's all there is to it. So he'll happily sit and fester in his pool of rot while we either walk away or slog through content that's been outdated for years and years. Multiple times.
I dunno about you folks, but I have a life outside of WoW. I don't have time to devote 80 hours per alt. Blizzard used to understand this at one point, and leveling wasn't a horribly slow mess where you never get any stronger and you need way too much XP per level.
...And then what? Level them through this slow-moving road where you can't even dungeon chain anymore? Player choice has been completely removed. You zone quest to level or you pay for a boost. Those are your only options now.
I've still only gotten 2 Allied Races to heritage armor level. I just can't bring myself to level alts anymore. It takes too long. I know it's to distract you from the fact that there's literally no content at 120 aside from grinding rep, especially if you hate dungeons/raids like I do, but god damn, at least try to hide that fact. Don't put signs up with neon, flashing lights.
I doubt I'll ever seriously level an alt again unless they get their heads out of their butts and fix the mess they've made. But that would require them to admit they made a mess in the first place, which Ion adamantly refuses to do. He's right, we're all wrong, and that's all there is to it. So he'll happily sit and fester in his pool of rot while we either walk away or slog through content that's been outdated for years and years. Multiple times.
I dunno about you folks, but I have a life outside of WoW. I don't have time to devote 80 hours per alt. Blizzard used to understand this at one point, and leveling wasn't a horribly slow mess where you never get any stronger and you need way too much XP per level.
I got my VE to 100 today and rather enjoyed the experience.
balanced level zones gave me a lot of choice on questing.
but...
at this point it sure would help if dungeons gave a level on completion.
with 120 levels that seems really fair.
balanced level zones gave me a lot of choice on questing.
but...
at this point it sure would help if dungeons gave a level on completion.
with 120 levels that seems really fair.
09/21/2018 01:24 PMPosted by BodoI got my VE to 100 today and rather enjoyed the experience.
balanced level zones gave me a lot of choice on questing.
but...
at this point it sure would help if dungeons gave a level on completion.
with 120 levels that seems really fair.
That would be reasonable 120 dungeoun runs. I'd never want to do a dungeoun again at that point 60 is more resonable. read fix the frelling dungeoun quest xp.
Hell fix the dungeoun xp in general is someones higher leveled than you but in your leveling range you lose exp drastically.
And cut back the xp required to level by a third from what it is.
Reminder dungeon leveling still sucks
4300 + posts and Blizz still dont get it. or just dont care this doesnt improve the longevity of the game it weakens it by boring thier playerbase into moving on to something else that did the dungeun xp right, scaled things properly, and didnt constantly stealth nerf and buff things.
Its like watching your favorite movie frame by frame, sure you used to love the movie and you know how it ends, but requiring to watch frame by frame only ends up highlighting and showing you all the flaws you missed the first couple times (100-200 dungeon runs) or so times you seen it as you were too busy enjoying the moment.
Then they take out random scenes, because you told them you wanted to watch one of three or four genres, and even though you love more then one genre, they will only show you the one you specified some of the time.... (forced personal spec specific loot) like if i wanted to watch Ash VS Evil Dead or Army of Darkness, which are comedy / horror, and because i specified the horror elements, suddenly ash doesnt make it on screen for most the series/ film, great, you really get the whole variety of life thing where you can experience more then one thing at a time... so how do you enjoy Reese's ion, without the peanutbutter or chocolate?
Then they take out random scenes, because you told them you wanted to watch one of three or four genres, and even though you love more then one genre, they will only show you the one you specified some of the time.... (forced personal spec specific loot) like if i wanted to watch Ash VS Evil Dead or Army of Darkness, which are comedy / horror, and because i specified the horror elements, suddenly ash doesnt make it on screen for most the series/ film, great, you really get the whole variety of life thing where you can experience more then one thing at a time... so how do you enjoy Reese's ion, without the peanutbutter or chocolate?
09/21/2018 11:08 PMPosted by Viridina4300 + posts and Blizz still dont get it. or just dont care this doesnt improve the longevity of the game it weakens it by boring thier playerbase into moving on to something else that did the dungeun xp right, scaled things properly, and didnt constantly stealth nerf and buff things.
Blizzard doesn't care, If they did they would have implemented some of the good ideas within this thread that would have made the entire player base happy.
This thread started as a sticky by Blizzard themselves acknowledging the "BUG"(s) asking for feedback then simply unstickied it and ignored the feedback.
I have no doubt in my mind that this thread was created to be what is called a "Containment Thread" which companies do when they know they have implemented things that people dislike.
Bottom line is that it's all about the money; Blizzard does things to cause the players to have to spend more time in leveling leads to more money in subscriptions.
Funny thing is that if they wanted us to enjoy their beautiful creation as we level then they wouldn't offer a way to bypass it for $60.00.
Still terrible, trash are HP sponges and it takes an eternity to kill them; cannot "short man" dungeons anymore (formerly a favorite activity); personal loot sucks and the XP you get is absurdly small.
Dungeons take an inordinate investment of player time for diminishing rewards. Feh.
Dungeons take an inordinate investment of player time for diminishing rewards. Feh.