I was just reading up on the Elder Scrolls, It looked interesting.
I loved ESO until they level scaled the entire world.
Level scaling leaves me feeling as though I am just on a treadmill. I never become more powerful than the mobs, and therefore, feel as though I am getting nowhere.
I did try to play ESO after scaling, but ended up cancelling my sub, as did most of the people in my guild and most of us had played almost since launch. You still can play for free, but who cares? I ended up erasing it from my hard drive.
And ESO is much newer than WoW, the main story is much more sophisticated, graphics and music are fantastic; questing is excellent and the world is engaging. Despite this, level scaling the world killed the game for me and many others.
If you must scale, scale the player to the area, which makes it possible for groups of different levels to enjoy content together. SWTOR does this very, very well. If you exceed the level of the content, YOU are scaled down in gear level, power and health, although you retain your higher level abilities. Lower level players are scaled up, with more health and power, although they lack higher level abilities. Overall it works very well in the instanced content and scaled outer world areas. XP gains are scaled to level, but not nerfed (i.e., level 20 gets full level 20 XP, higher levels get the max XP offered by the quest or instance. That is a sane way to do scaling. World scaling and instance scaling is a disaster.
But of course level scaling and XP nerf were introduced to WoW after 13 years, not to give players a fresh experience but instead, to drag out the time you spend online, despite the fact that your sub still only earns them $15. They figure you'll be willing to stay subbed for more months if it takes you a year to level a toon from 1-110 (or whatever); alternatively, you can shell out $60 for a character boost (the availability of which gives the lie to Blizzard's stated reasons for these changes). If Blizzard was sincere, then along with scaling, the massive XP nerf, heirloom nerf, etc., they would have removed the "skip over 110 levels altogether" ridiculously overpriced token from the Blizzard store.
What ultimately will happen is that WoW will continue to bleed subs because these changes have made play punishing and unenjoyable. These are not "features" you expect to find in a game and I suspect few players will enjoy the experience. Most won't pop for the $60 and the already vacant servers will continue to empty.
In fact, what they've done is make the level experience even more tedious than it was in Vanilla. In a 13 year old game, this cannot possibly be a winning formula.
After 13 years, I am probably gonna park my 50 toons in places they love, and call it a day. It saddens me to see this game in such sharp decline.
But back to the topic of your post, if you like a scaled world, you may very well love ESO. Otherwise, no.
Yes I liked and have played SWTORand even bought the collectors edition, I really enjoy that game and may return to it, I have 3 more months on this subscription on this account due to having a stock pile of gold and buying up tokens, My other account (Wife's actually) will be up in a couple weeks and I will not resub. Sadly I had already bought the digital deluxe edition of bfa and had started leveling a Void Elf and when I hit 70 i noticed the xp being off and mobs harder to kill so I checked the forums and found what Blizzard had done in 7.3.5. I hardly ever post in the forums as I was happy with the game (all except for the Cata Xpac) Oh well it was fun in it's day but little by little the DEVS have ruined the game for me.
It's sad too, because I've had a love/hate relationship with WoW since it started. WoTLK was probably the best experience I had in this game. I too want WoW to keep going and I want it to be fun for many people again. I get that I have my own likes and perspective and that others may vary; but that's why the devs should give the players a choice in how they want to level. Unfortunately I just don't see that happening anytime soon, not with the dev (non)response and the hardcore fans turning a blind eye and defending every decision.
So, what do you guys think? Guild Wars 2? Elder Scrolls Online? SWTOR? What's a good alternative MMO? Pros, cons, likes, dislikes? Heck it doesn't even have to be an MMO: MechWarrior Online is good for a few rounds, but their dev cycle sucks in terms of generating new content... but if you like playing MechWarrior the Counter Strike edition then it's not really a big deal.
ESO was brilliant till they level scaled the world. I like to feel character progression; I love outleveling content and area level scaling therefore sucks. If you don't mind, the world is expansive, beautiful and questing is good. The main story requires solo play and you get a main story quest every 5 or so levels. Professions are sophisticated. I didn't care for instanced content.
SWTOR: This game is very story driven and if you don't like that, you won't like SWTOR. End-game is minimal, yes there are raids but that's really not how SWTOR works. After you've gone through the character story and have hit, I think 50, you can play the first expansion; then the Revan expansion; from then on you are in chapter story mode. PLAYERS are level scaled to certain instances and areas not the reverse. This makes it possible to group with players of various levels. Player scaling either raises or lowers your power and HP; while permitting higher level toons to retain their high level moves and gear. Works very well. Again, however SWTOR is entirely different from WoW. Combat is smooth and fun and you have a panoply of moves plus talents. Character classes are limited to 4. You do acquire companions who have their own stories and who can accompany you on missions; all companions can be specced as tank dps or heals.
GW2 is fun but very PvP oriented. Stories are fluid, i.e., you can genuinely affect the outcome of an area battle; grouping is spontaneous and rewards are based on your relative contribution. GW2 scales players rather than areas, for instances and events, in a manner similar to that of SWTOR.
Star Trek Online: lots of fun; space and ground missions; you have a crew who fights with you. If you join with other players, fewer crew come along. It's fast and fun; there is no scaling of which I'm aware.
Neverwinter Online: beautiful and based on the Neverwinter of D&D fame; good characters and questing; abilities are fun and talents are a blast. Area questing is pleasurable; instanced content is challenging and fun.
Both STO and Neverwinter are FTP and they make most of their bux selling keys for the treasure chests you find as well as cosmetic items and in STO, ships. However, you do not have to buy anything at all to enjoy the game, since they give you ships, mounts and gear.
Revelation Online: a fun and gorgeous game in which your character can both glide from start and fly, with wings or a mount, (level locked till 29). It's a story driven game with plenty of side quests. Instanced content is challenging and fun. I personally love to fly so Rev Online is a favorite. Oh, and it's FTP with a cash shop selling cosmetic items and mounts.
FF!4: One of the best MMO stories Ive seen. Beautiful graphics, music, character development, good gameplay with the following caveats: Leveling is slow (not as slow as WoW is now) but on a par with BC's original release. Also: combat is frustrating if you're used to instant casts. FF14's GCD is much longer than any other game I've played. However, the mobs aren't any faster, and you do become accustomed to it. At higher levels gear can reduce it but it's never going to feel like WoW. Mounts are adorable and every different type of mount has its own music! Also main story story content is solo and quite challenging. FF14 is sub only but also has a cash shop for mounts and cosmetic items.
It is worth trying ALL of the free to plays, since all it costs you is disk space and your time. FF14 takes commitment; ESO does not require quite as much.
SWTOR is in a class of its own due to it being based on what Bioware does best, which is storytelling. (If you ever played KOTOR or KOTOR 2 you know what I mean.)
I hope you find this information useful. Cheers!
Thanks for the information, FF14 has a free trial which I may try it, I also played Rift for a while and liked it as well around the Cata Era and may try it again. One thing I liked hearing about FF14 was how they listen to the majority of their player base which is what I like. I despise speaking (Which the majority I hear here have been and the majority dislike the XP changes because all you have to do is scroll over each and count the Likes and you can see for yourself) and feeling like the player base can take what they have done and cram it down our throat and say Like it or Leave, Dictatorship doesn't sit well with me. I hear FF14 likes to get the feedback from the players which is the way it should be.
Oh well maybe we'll meet up on another game, I usually assign my main's name Bubbadaman so if you see that name you'll know it's more then likely me.
I think dungeons have become fun again. I've power leveled quite a few toons before the patch. I would like to say I like how you've changed it. I admit, when the patch first came out it was not worth dungeon leveling because the xp was so low but now that you've changed it, it is rewarding. I'm also the type of person who likes to do questing as I wait for a dungeon, which is normally a long wait since I am in a low pop server. I like the world scaling where I can quest in my favorite areas. Thank you=] I've enjoyed leveling my professions too since the new patch. Ive never really done that before. World of Warcraft has become a lot more fun and I've enjoyed myself immensely! Im excited to see what else is in store for us!
Its more or less they think the player base is wrong so they choose to ignore us so what if we all quit they have other games right? i hate that ive invested so many years into the game for them to end up this way the game has come so far down that they just blow us off till we leave just leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you realize how much time and money you have spent supporting them for them to basically say go !@#$ yourself if you don't like it by not even saying a word although id welcome them actually saying it at this point because at least it would be some kind of response.
I gotta say, I took a 6 year break to play other games (mainly Final Fantasy 14) and I gotta hand it to Square Enix, never before have I seen a dev team like theirs. They listen to almost every kind of player from the RPers, to PvP and PvE. And for the most part their communication team and dev team are universally loved by most players.
When I came back to this game around 3 months ago, yeah I leveled like crazy and had fun but now it's just boring, stagnant, and it's clear the forum team has no interest in discussing actual gameplay ideas and instead choose to ignore them and post in idiotic threads like "What do you think gnome shoes taste like?"
LOL..Yep, The role of a pure dictatorship with WoW, Think I will give FF14 a try, I like what you have to say about their communication with the players/customers plus it shows respect and if they respect us the players so will I in return, Democracy I say! Not Dictatorship!
I think dungeons have become fun again. I've power leveled quite a few toons before the patch. I would like to say I like how you've changed it. I admit, when the patch first came out it was not worth dungeon leveling because the xp was so low but now that you've changed it, it is rewarding. I'm also the type of person who likes to do questing as I wait for a dungeon, which is normally a long wait since I am in a low pop server. I like the world scaling where I can quest in my favorite areas. Thank you=] I've enjoyed leveling my professions too since the new patch. Ive never really done that before. World of Warcraft has become a lot more fun and I've enjoyed myself immensely! Im excited to see what else is in store for us!
That's nice Ion. Didn't realize you were trolling until this part -->
Logic WAS NOT broken. XP functioned in dungeons with power leveling the way it has FOR YEARS.
This is just PR nonsense. Do tell us how your "xp logic" was doing anything any different than it ever had? You can't and won't because it wasn't.
You just killed power leveling because you don't want people leveling in anything resembling a reasonable amount of time no matter how many times they've done it before or whether or not they've seen your precious precious quests.
I truly hope people will see this crap for what it is and just STOP making alts.
Completely agree 100%
Also agree. Probably not noticeable on the blizz time played metric chart, but I have not logged into this game, but maybe twice in the last few weeks, and that was just so I would not get kicked from one of the guilds I'm in, because they have a no show policy. If I didn't like some of the folks that are in that guild would of said the hell with it, and let them kick my main, and the two alts I have in there out. Pretty much at that point anyways though, so may just let the gm kick em out, because even though its not even a scratch, I wont contribute to their played time metric, or whatever the crap they call it anymore.
I got 2 levels from Shadowfang Keep, and 2 from Blackfathom Deeps.
I'll continue testing on this character. I have another alt I am just questing on. She's made it to 58, and I'm going to force myself to slog though at least Hellfire, Shadowmoon Valley (because I never would go there before), and then Netherstorm (just because I really like that zone).
I do feel like it's sluggish, but I noticed one neat thing they did once, and I'm not sure if it was intentional or just accident, but there was a high level that was in the same zone, and kept killing the stuff I needed, and stuff was a known location for slow spawns. After a couple of minutes of frustration, I was zoned out to somewhere else where there were mobs available, and no high level following me around killing stuff. THAT was nice. I felt like that was their way of fixing the 'gah things take too long to respawn' and that's fine.
It's the "it takes 9 - 11 hits to kill something" that is slowly sucking my soul.
Heirlooms need buffed. I find myself wanting to go outside instead of playing because I know I won't get anywhere of value. I get that people are "liking" Witcher 3 because it's such a grind, but man. I don't really like this, even though I love playing.
Revelation Online: a fun and gorgeous game in which your character can both glide from start and fly, with wings or a mount, (level locked till 29). It's a story driven game with plenty of side quests. Instanced content is challenging and fun. I personally love to fly so Rev Online is a favorite. Oh, and it's FTP with a cash shop selling cosmetic items and mounts.
Be prepared to see a bunch of gunslinging bimbos running around.
FF!4: One of the best MMO stories Ive seen. Beautiful graphics, music, character development, good gameplay with the following caveats: Leveling is slow (not as slow as WoW is now) but on a par with BC's original release. Also: combat is frustrating if you're used to instant casts. FF14's GCD is much longer than any other game I've played. However, the mobs aren't any faster, and you do become accustomed to it. At higher levels gear can reduce it but it's never going to feel like WoW. Mounts are adorable and every different type of mount has its own music! Also main story story content is solo and quite challenging.
FF!4: One of the best MMO stories Ive seen. Beautiful graphics, music, character development, good gameplay with the following caveats: Leveling is slow (not as slow as WoW is now) but on a par with BC's original release. Also: combat is frustrating if you're used to instant casts. FF14's GCD is much longer than any other game I've played. However, the mobs aren't any faster, and you do become accustomed to it. At higher levels gear can reduce it but it's never going to feel like WoW. Mounts are adorable and every different type of mount has its own music! Also main story story content is solo and quite challenging.
AHAHAHAHA
FF14? Challenging solo content?
Are we playing the same game? Ahahahah. No.
I think it depends on the class you play. Some classes handle the solo content much easier than others. :)
I think it depends on the class you play. Some classes handle the solo content much easier than others. :)
No, every class can handle any of the solo content, they have NPC allies that physically heal you if you get low. Unless you stand inside every aoe like a moron it's impossible to fail any.
... I think it depends on the class you play. Some classes handle the solo content much easier than others. :)
No, every class can handle any of the solo content, they have NPC allies that physically heal you if you get low. Unless you stand inside every aoe like a moron it's impossible to fail any.
I didn't say some characters cannot handle the solo content. I stated that it is more challenging for some classes than others. I stand by that, based on my experience, "helper" npc notwithstanding.
No, every class can handle any of the solo content, they have NPC allies that physically heal you if you get low. Unless you stand inside every aoe like a moron it's impossible to fail any.
I didn't say some characters cannot handle the solo content. I stated that it is more challenging for some classes than others. I stand by that, based on my experience, "helper" npc notwithstanding.
... I didn't say some characters cannot handle the solo content. I stated that it is more challenging for some classes than others. I stand by that, based on my experience, "helper" npc notwithstanding.
After further questing last night, reduce the amount of hits that it takes for normal questing mobs to die to be 5-8 hits, and I think that would satisfy the majority of the people complaining of sluggishness.
The only frustration I had last night was on a bombing mission (one that you can repeat, but only get XP the first time) and it kept giving 'out of range' followed by 'spell not learned' errors. I had drug the bomb to the action bar 4, and that's what it kept doing after clicking the icon when I would try to target and click. It took 3 times of flying over and back to complete the quest.
Otherwise, I actually enjoyed Hellfire last night. 5-8 hits would have made it a really fun experience.
From WoW’s earliest days, we’ve always had to take steps to limit experience gains for characters when grouped with someone of a drastically higher level. We recently became aware of a bug introduced in 7.3.5: a side-effect of the vastly expanded creature scaling was causing the logic to break when awarding XP in some situations. Earlier today, we applied a hotfix to creature experience that corrects this issue.
At the same time, we have significantly increased the experience awarded through queuing for random Normal dungeons from Classic through Draenor content. Running dungeons at the appropriate should feel rewarding, whether as a complement to or even an complete alternative to questing.
As always, we appreciate your feedback and will continue to keep a close eye on the pacing of the leveling experience in 7.3.5 and beyond.
Just a general reminder you kill trust in your words when you refuse to back them up or explain yourself. For a promise of communication youve failed terribly and by your own silence make the community more toxic.
Just a general reminder you kill trust in your words when you refuse to back them up or explain yourself. For a promise of communication youve failed terribly and by your own silence make the community more toxic.
The funny thing is, they still wonder why a lot of players are cynical now...
Just a general reminder you kill trust in your words when you refuse to back them up or explain yourself. For a promise of communication youve failed terribly and by your own silence make the community more toxic.
The funny thing is, they still wonder why a lot of players are cynical now...
"Why are the players so angry at us?"
"I dont know, but im not about to go in there and find out. That would be a waste of my time" *goes back to making a house of cards*