Nah, that’s just you trying to misrepresent my claims.
I already specified that the time at which the gear is introduced to the game is part and parcel with it being considered catch-up gear at all. An ilvl 230~ piece from Mythic Nathria would still be a piece of raid gear in this case, just from a previous patch of the current expansion.
In fact, I actually have no idea what you’re even trying to claim by saying that now I think about it. Elaborate, please.
Max level, 2nd expansion, doesn’t equal super easy raid content.
Max level, 2nd expansion, with 2nd, maybe 3rd tier equals easy raid content.
You conveniently forget that Dungeons were soloable 1 expac ahead with little issue before. In BC you could solo most dungeons of vanilla, with the exception being large dungeons that were for 10 man groups, like blackrock spire. As soon as you were level cap on next expac, you could easly solo dungeons on greens. Not even that is possible anymore, you get completely stomped by dungeons that are suddenly a lot harder despite prior expacs not having any issues. I recall on my priest soloing Stratholme during BC with the gear available, and stopped until wotlk prepatch increased the drop rate, back on my older account. Also i was soloing in wotlk Magister’s terrace and Sethekk Halls with zero issues.
In BFA i could easly solo Karazhan for attumen’s mount in fresh 120 toons, but in SL, i was getting destroyed in King’s rest and Mechagon and it wasn’t until ZM patch where it was possible to gear alts to be capable of soloing the M0 of BFA, but even then its a hella lot slower. I didn’t take nearly as long to solo a dungeon in BFA with legion M0.
It’s also undeniable that a lot of Legion Mythic raiding content was doable with 8.3 BFA gear, until SL prepatch broke it and they never fixed it. Your logic makes absolutely no sense in light of the pre-SL tuning that came in every expansion. There’s never a good reason to nerf people’s power and make older content stomp you when you were beating it easly before. It’s completely against the very principles of RPG AND MMO design and nature: you always get stronger, never weaker. Your enemies fall but never become stronger outside special circumstances like scaling bits(Diablo rifts or M+), and those bits come with increased rewards. Buffing it without actually increasing rewards is actually borderline on scam: You cheat people out of the power they earned.
I used to solo scholo for life stealing enchant, dungeons have always been easy. You should have no issues soloing mythic 5 mans from BFA.
Raids, that’s a different story, Naxx was BRUTAL in TBC, fire damage in MC alone would kill you.
That hasn’t explained anything.
Yes, an ilvl 230 piece at the end of Shadowlands is going to be an ilvl 230 piece. It will be so until ilvl gets another inevitable squish because the development team can’t fathom another way to keep this heaving bulk of an abomination going forward, and I still have no idea what that has to do with something being catch-up gear or starter gear.
Easy concept, you just don’t want to admit where the game starts. You wanna pretend it starts at max level.
The game starts when you start playing it.
This has even less to do with our discussion.
Well good luck soloing anything at level 1 with like 15 ilv.
You are the only one even saying anything like that.
No, I was talking about ilv, you’re ignoring it, because you know I am right.
I haven’t ignored it, I addressed it. A mythic raid piece of ilvl 230 is still raid gear because it comes from a raid, a piece of catch-up gear of ilvl 230 is catch-up gear because it’s made easily obtainable for players getting into content part-way into the expansion.
But i still did even on a 220 ilvl toon, i was getting nuked by Shadow of Zul in that particular alt because my cds were still used due to 3rd boss, which is a dps race when the axe troll is involved because i will die otherwise. That’s plain wrong, its completely different from earlier expacs.
There’s no excuse. Even ZM gear didn’t fully mitigate, as said toon could not solo Mechagon Mythic 0 until i got a luck streak and looted multiple pieces from world bosses of the wow anniversary over the last few days. And even then, troll boss is still a pain in the rear.
Why should i have to jump through hoops to do what i could do on previous expansions without ridiculous extra steps?
And dungeons should not have been buffed like this. It’s wrong, its already bad enough the scaling job done in SL prepatch that has not been reverted.
At no point i actually mentioned raids lol. Need at least 2 extra level caps to manage them, and even then its a big if due to certain bosses that were not doable due to mechanics like Hellfire citadel cannons(unless you were a super fast class) or Gorefiend’s mouth sucking mechanic(could be averted if you could burst his hp down before he ate you).
Sounds a lot like starter gear, but with more words.
They aren’t.
Well this topic is about raids, so keep up Jr.
Because you’re confusing beginning of expansion gear for starting the initial end-game progression of that cycle for gear introduced after the fact to help players catch-up with the current placement of the bar.
Otherwise a boosted 60 wouldn’t start with gear nearly 100 ilvls lower than 230, because for all intents and purposes they’re “starting” at 60.
That’s a lie. Stop right there.
HP values of King’s rest last boss before prepatch: 320k.
After pre-patch: 400k
Also golems in KR, the ones on start had around 60k hp before prepatch, now its a bit over 80k. It’s noticeable on how longer it takes to die compared to before. The only alt where i didnt notice a slower kill time was enhancement shaman, and that’s because enhancement was hilariously broken when prepatch released, to the point they had to slap a large 25% nerf to its damage.
Go check it yourself if you don’t believe me. Some more extreme examples, albeit not involved with dungeons.
Scunner rare in maldraxxus. Pre- DF prepatch: 471k hp to a fresh 60
after? with same fresh 60? 701k.
Even BFA to wod we had the dps to blow by any mechanic. even by 8.2 you were dropping blackhand some classes NO floor break even. Intro monologue, smack him around to shut him up, dead. yay, walk out change raid level and now farm heroic for gold. floor breaks you stoned out to fly back.
HFC you dps straight to mechanics. Bird man boss only lived long because 1-2 swings to his invul bubble, kill his adds…out of bubble and drop him for annoying you with that crap.
WoD Kil’jaeden to avoid a small glitch you hit a few times, waited for his special boss room phase change then killed him. If you killed him near that phase shift mechanic you would kill him but the game killed you too for some reason.
No, you’re confusing max level quest gear, with 1st raid gear.
Max level quest gear is for survival and so you can actually get to level cap, then you do dungeons, dungeons are not endgame, raiding is, and now M+ /shrug pvp I guess.
That is starter gear, that is where the game begins, everything else is fluff.
No, 1st raid gear is just raid gear. Just because it has the same or lower ilvl compared to later catch-up gear doesn’t change that, because the two sets are sourced differently; one from a raid, the other from some vendor/world quests/random zone drops.
Catch-up gear helps you to participate in current content, which includes the zone itself, and which it does. It’s cheap at a mere few thousand anima for a set, which is easily gotten from the zone itself and prior regions, and it will afford you an easier time participating in early mythics which anyone can because now you don’t even need to knock out a +0 for your own key.
None of this has anything to do with when the game “begins” or when one begins “playing the game”.
Kil’jaeden is a Legion boss though. You are probably thinking of Archimonde. And yes, i remember that bug. Ran it once for some mogs on an alt, and he killed me with the bug
No
in WoD.
Oh dang! You right, I had to check.