WSG Premade debate

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
41

It isn’t. It’s quite possible to stop being GY camped. Would you care to answer a couple of questions? I’m genuinely asking, so please don’t ignore them.

1.) What have you tried?

2.) Are you willing to try?

Something that I have personally noticed is the increase in pushback against negative behavior in BGs. More and more people are stepping up, and showing that the complainers, quitters, and throwers are a vocal minority, but not the majority who enjoy this game and want to actually win BGs.

Be part of the positive people who are actively pushing back to retake control of BGs, and set the winning attitude!

And of course, if you get tired of doing it, or face too many quitters and throwers, then join or form your own premades.

:woman_shrugging:

EDIT: I didn’t respond to the rest of the post, so here it is:

I don’t refuse to accept that it’s happening, but I certainly reject that nothing can be done about it, and I’ve literally explained one viable strategy for overcoming it.

I’ve already addressed this, I believe, several times.

1.) I don’t believe that most people who are sitting and getting GY camped are trying. I think they are expecting to get carried, and don’t deserve anything other than to be GY camped.

2.) If people get sick and tired of their teammates sitting around doing nothing while being GY camped, and they are actively being attacked by their own teammates for trying to coordinate resurrecting together, focusing fire on a healer/cc on another healer, and overcoming the GY Camp, and then the BG objectives, at least they are able to join premades or make their own and exclude those people who refuse to play the game.

I don’t think they are being passive, I think they are being much worse than that. They are doing nothing, expecting their teammates to either carry them, or actively calling their own teammates names, while dragging them down and diminishing the enjoyment of the game for other players.

42

“What have you tried?”
That really depends on what classes are camping me, who’s about to rez with me, and how many of each.
I can generally buy myself an one other player a couple of extra cooldowns against melee with a combination of Nova, Regen, and LF.
I generally can’t get a sheep cast off, regardless.
I don’t think you understand that it’s not getting GY camped by one or two players, but by 6+ in optimal gear with a couple of priests behind them.
Sometimes they stack top and bottom, so jumping is just jumping into more death. Most of the time they don’t even need to, because everyone rezzing dies inside of two GCDs.
The closest I’ve ever come to successfully tossing off a team camp is getting everyone to hold their rez long enough for everyone to rez simultaneously. We lasted a whole three GCDs longer.
You do not understand, or refuse to accept, just how disruptive premades are against solo queue teams. I am not exaggerating when I say I’ve watched a team of ten die before they can even jump.

1 Like
43

Thank you for the genuine reply.

I would convey that I also do, and have queued into premades and been on teams that are getting camped.

Sometimes, I’ve also felt so down and depressed that I couldn’t even bring myself to type out words of encouragement into the BG chat, for fear of being shut down or coming across as a complete lunatic who honestly believes that you can come back from such a horrible situation.

And, sometimes I’ve come back from such situations! Of course, I deal with the same issues and dilemma of whether I should queue another BG as a solo, join someone else’s trade-chat team, look for a discord-voice-based team, or run my own. And even on those teams, I sometimes question whether I should call out people who call to throw or quit.

The other day, the GM of a guild I was doing some premades with actually quit after our first game, because it was a 35 minute match and he apparently just wanted quick wins. Fortunately, that group was all just people who joined the discord and wanted to actually play to win, and we had some more 30+ minute premade vs premade games where we even came back from 2:0 to win, and someone even said, “Let’s just let them cap,” but other said, “Nah, we win these.” and gave some encouragement.

At the end of the day, it seems like some people might be pointing to premades and saying, “There’s a problem.” Where, I’m pointing to quitters and throwers and saying, “Actually, there’s your problem.”

The truth is maybe the problem is somewhere in the middle. Maybe there are several problems. Maybe something else, but we currently have a reasonable amount of agency to solve our own problems ourselves by not giving up. Perhaps being positive influences in our communities and in our BGs will pay off in the long run (anecdotally of course, but) I’m already seeing evidence of this!

Anyway, best of luck out there!

:woman_shrugging:

1 Like
44

As much as I know I would enjoy a solo Q, the best solution that benefits all parties in some way, is capping BG Q’s with a party of 5 for all BG’s. That way you can still play with a friend or multiple friends. You can still form a strong small premade to help your team win in battle, but way more of the games will be competitive and enjoyable.

I did the high rank grind twice, back in vanilla and in 2019. In vanilla, it was server only at the time and we stomped everyone, it wasn’t even close. But in 2019, we’re much older, time is limited, and as a premade, we stomped all pugs, and most premades. This is how premade vs premade went. There’s 1 battle in the middle, whoever wins that battle, the other team usually let their FC cap 3x and the rest of us fought for HK honor.

We knew it was less honor per hour to try and win a close battle and drag the game on. That’s what is happening right now. Premades are just the most efficient way to farm rep per hour and in later phases and at 60, honor per hour will be goal. It’s rarely about playing with friends or the competitive spirit, it’s about item gear upgrades, it always was and always will be. Blizzard doubling down on supporting premades just shows they aren’t in touch with what’s going on in their game on a large scale.

1 Like
45

Probably a good idea at this point if they aren’t going to match teams in a more level playing field manner. BGs should be an excuse to fight as you grind rep. It’s not supposed to be an eSport. When they went that direction, pvp died. Winning should just mean you get to the end of the rep grind a bit faster.

The current system was fine back when 1 out of 7 games would be a premade vs. a pug. And the premades were simply just guilds playing together, not stacking OP classes. But it’s unsustainable now since meta culture and information access has changed since 2005. The game needs to adjust for it.

46

who has seen someone throw a game other than the scenario of not getting camped by a premade? lol

47

This is the part they don’t want to talk about

48

This just makes the problem slightly less an issue. Not going to work. Just have a solo queue, and the standard queue that we have now. Otherwise you just stack 4 priests and a druid and you win every game the same way.

49

I’m gonna be honest, I’m actually shocked at the genuine reply from you, but I do appreciate it.

I’ve also tried standing at the ledge to jump and blink to grab the green buff, which let me grab the only KB in the entire BG team, which was my own personal little victory.

I’ve watched a team overcome a premade once and only once, and we laughed about it chat in the entire time - but this is 1 out of several days of grinding BGs. Grinding to rank 3 from rank 2 took me the better part of a week grinding my face against premade teams with almost no honor earned.

I really don’t care much about losing in BGs, but I think it’s absolutely fair to point out that it’s unacceptable to not even have a chance to play against premade teams. Part of this is a consequence of being on an RP server; I’m in a minority of players that like all of the content of the game, including collaborative player-made/run story content.

(Totally an aside:) Moon Guard used to have these gigantic world RP-PvP events, regularlry over 100 on each side and typically several times that. GCDs could take 5 seconds to process from the server lag. This was the most fun I’ve had in MMOs to this day.

I adore group PvP. Leading RBGs was my absolute jam when they were introduced. I just think that groups should fight groups. While I see your sentiment might be less toxic than I originally thought, I also think it’s overly optimistic of what is, genuinely, mathematically possible when the odds can be so heavily stacked. Teams that don’t quit are getting rolled just as hard and fast, the only difference I’ve seen between them and the quitters is the amount of HKs the premade team gets.

1 Like
50

They’ve done this in the past and it was a huge improvement over what WSG is like now. I agree, it will be less of an issue in WSG, but I’ll take any form of improvement. But the real benefit will come in AB and even more so in AV where that small premade plays less of a factor and is more easily countered.

Again, Blizzard is always faced with tricky situations, you can’t please everyone, and going to one extreme or the other is rarely ever a good idea, but this is a happy median and at 50 when all BG’s are out, BG’s will be 10x better than now with this change and the biggest complaint will go back to class balance, lol.

51

Yeah AV is an interesting situation. I actually think half premades are the best way to play it. It’s impossible to stack classes, or fill the entire team. It’s almost an RNG in and of itself. WSG is a whole nother beast. AB to a lesser degree, but still a major problem there.

I get what you’re saying about a happy median in that sense. I just don’t think there is a spot for that wsg since it’s so class stack sensitive.

I could see AB working with a 5 man queue tho. I probably wouldn’t stand in a hard line against that. Would have to test prob tho.

52

In 2019, they removed the ability to Q as a full premade down to 5 in AV and it was so much better. Part of the issue with WSG now, is how unbalanced classes are right now at level 25. Blizzard is already looking ahead, and with P2 on the horizon, if the disparity is mitigated more at 40, then WSG won’t be as bad with a 5 man grouping cap. But that’s a big if.

53

From my recollection, AV has always been a 5 man queue exclusively. Maybe I’ve lost my mind, but hey.

54

Not at the start of classic AV in 2019. You could Q as a raid and it was horrible. To Blizzard’s credit they quickly changed it to 5. But then people used an addon to group 7-8 groups of 5 from the same server for the same AV group to circumvent the limitation and Blizzard again stepped in to remove the functionality of the addon and then AV was much more enjoyable.

1 Like
55

what kind of garbage team are you running that could possibly ever get wiped by a pug rez wave lmao

56

Probably the smelliest type, but…

is there a particular team composition that isn’t susceptible to 10 players coordinating CC and Focus Fire that I am unaware of? Please do share!

57

This thread is crazy, it appears to consist of 1 troll hunter gaslighting everyone to protect their pug-stomping ability.

Honestly, at this point anyone who has solo queued into WSG has experienced premades stomping you. Suggesting you can coordinate 10 pugs to rez at the same time and somehow manage to kill the 9 people gy camping you (with full heal support) is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time.

It really comes down to “don’t nerf my premade bro, stomping PUG’s is the only thing in my life that makes me feel like a big man”.

58

Haha, fair, but every now and then you get a pug team that can win against a preform. Hence the continual argument that pops up in these threads… “hey guys, if you try, you might win against a preform … therefore, no changes are needed here! Everything is fine!”

At this point, I’ve come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people participating in preform pvp aren’t truly interested in pvp’ing at all.

59

correct, they are interested in farming epic bracers for next phase because of aggrends tweet saying they will be released.

if he reversed his stance on the bracers publicly this entire problem would solve itself.

60

Might make it worse. A lot of people invested time into the rep to get them and are done already.