Yeah, well… sometimes you’re so far down a hole that it’s hard to see the light. If you happen to play on Crusader-Strike Alliance and are willing to at least make the effort to try, maybe you’ll find me and see if a few positive influences can help impact your enjoyment of the game.
You’re just trying to gaslight at this point. You’re telling multiple players that they did not in fact see or experience what they’ve seen and experienced, all to defend your ezmode autowin pubstomps.
I shouldn’t be required to be part of the problem just to participate in something. I have no problem with premades facing other premades. The only reason to defend premades vs solo queuers is to get wins with as little effort as possible with zero competition. That’s it - there’s no other purpose.
Absolutely not. One of the (if not the) most difficult things to overcome in a BG is having teammates who quit, throw the game, actively call to let the other team win, and harass their own teammates for trying to play by the objectives.
If you are the only person on your team (or if it seems like you are) and everyone else is as described above, it’s insanely difficult to even try to push through, and overcome the obstacle of your own team working against you. As I’ve mentioned above, I don’t want to play with people like that. I have, and it’s not fun.
The only way currently to ensure that you never have to is to form your own groups, and remove people if they behave that way.
I’m not saying that you must go out there and attempt to reform the quitters and throwers that nobody wants to play with because they drag everyone around them down, and are so unfun to play with that people don’t even want to queue for fear of being matched with them.
You shouldn’t, but if you’re actively throwing games, and berating others on your team for not following suit, then it’s difficult to imagine anything other than you being the problem.
If you reward people for losing there will be people who join with the goal of losing. This is why you have some many afk bots in AV.
Yes, that’s exactly what you’re doing by telling players that what they’ve seen happen didn’t in fact happen.
That’s what gaslighting is. The only person who’s even mentioned throwing games is you.
You refuse to accept that people who want to play literally cannot because they die within a global on rezzing, because that would mean acknowledging that you’re exploiting a broken system for autowins.
Firstly, this is absolutely not what I’m doing at all.
I’ve literally given instructions for a viable strategy to overcome this ridiculously easy to overcome thing.
If you can’t figure out (even with plain instructions) how to overcome being GY camped, and/or are completely unwilling to do anything about it for yourself, what business do you think you have queuing into a PVP Battleground? What do you expect to happen in PVP (particularly instanced PVP)?
Anyway, secondly at this point, there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of meaningful discussion or progress. From my point of view, I’ve done my best to engage with you, offer some advice and even a helping hand towards better enjoying the game, while sharing my opinion on the topic.
Perhaps it’s time we just agree to disagree and move on. Best of luck to you. If not you, well then I hope that some of what we’ve discussed today can be helpful to someone who might come across it.
I think most of us are simply looking for (valid) counters/arguments to why a solo-queue (including small groups) shouldn’t exist separately of a premade queue.
I’ve tried it both ways, solo queue’ing and preforms. Ran about a dozen games with a premade this morning and won every single game. But only one was challenging/fun… lasted about 30 mins. The rest were “clash once, then graveyard camp”. Conversely, solo queue/small friend group/pug games paired against other pugs have been tremendously enjoyable nearly every single time.
The dev’s response seems completely invalid given the amount of games, speed of queue pops, etc, that exist right now. I tend to think that the amount of people queueing would absolutely increase if people felt they had good odds at entering a reasonably fair fight… unless of course, they’re simply looking for an unfair fight., which seems to be the recurrent theme from people defending the pug v. preform status quo.
So a queue that allows you to only be matched with those who don’t “throw” (premades) would be a good solution. You could avoid all those ‘losers’.
You’re welcome.
I’d point out that the the dev’s response in this context (I’m assuming here. Feel free to correct me if I’m pointing to the wrong thing) a personal Twitter account of one of the developers (Aggrend) and the primary take-away with regards to what the team is working on or considering in terms of BGs (soloqueues or premades, or whatever) is:
"Not to say we won’t make adjustments; we are actively talking about this internally basically daily, but it’s not a simple problem and it doesn’t actually have a simple solution."
Here are the rest of the Tweets in a 5 Tweet series. You may disagree with my assertion above, but obviously I think it’s accurate enough to have stated it.
The primary reason that I personally can think of is that this rewards quitters, throwers and botters. I don’t know that the devs have ever cared to prune this type of behavior from the game, but if it were up to me, I’d be actively seeking to curb it.
Of course there are potentially many other reasons, but another that seems rather obvious to me is that it’s work that requires resources, planning, time/money dedicated to it and it isn’t obvious that there’s any benefit financial or otherwise such as player happiness, increased participation, etc. whatsoever, but it may very realistically negatively impact queue times, and would definitely take time to implement, which may show that it isn’t even necessary because we’ll have AB and Phase 2 before it would be out Anyway.
Well said,… My biggest complaint about WSG is queuing and repeatedly getting destroyed by premade groups. I enjoy a challenge and a fight to win, but a large percentage of WSG’s right now is nothing more than a premade mowing down pug groups and when you know you have no chance and are just being farmed, that’s no fun at all but people still do it in hopes they’ll get that 1 BG that’s a fair and fun fight… BTW @Snipy I may not like your opinions, but I like those premade rules you setup,. nicely said there…
Thanks for the comment! I especially appreciate it when someone who doesn’t particularly like my opinions is able to offer something that can either change my mind, or at least show some form of objectivity.
Kudos!
Just beat a Crusader Strike premade this morning who had 2 priests 3 hunter yada yada with a PUG. This idea that you are always just grave yard camped is a lie. You’re graveyard camped if you suck and you have AFK Andies etc but you don’t always just lose. Most people are just bad and want an excuse to AFK.
Personal experience with reality disagrees with your description.
We aren’t asking for any additional rewards via solo-queue, aside from the opportunity to play against other players of similar mindset.
How would a solo-queue reward quitters? From that mindset, it will be worse, as you might as well stick with the current status quo and get your free mark every 6-7 minutes by afk’ing in the GY, as opposed to actually playing the game in a 30 min. battle.
You don’t suppose that creating a higher ratio of battles, where players are actively engaged instead of standing dead in the GY, or camping the GY, waiting for the next game, would increase player happiness and participation? Seems to me the only ones that might be inclined to participate less are the ones having to work harder for the steamrolls.
Dude, it’s so easy. if you are being grave yard camped, you tell your 9 other pugs to “focus fire on the priest!” its just that easy. It’s crazy, it’s like their whole team will just let you run by and kill their 3 healers.
You have a total advantage when 9 players, with healers, in comms, are sitting in your GY and all 10 of you rez at once. You can easily just coordinate and win lul.
But seriously, you are correct. This guy is just gaslighting. I’ve experienced exactly what you are experiencing and I’ve done exactly what you are talking about premades do. It takes one person to cap and the other 9 can farm honor in your GY. This silly idea that they are “too focused” on capping and doing the objective to farm you, is just dumb.
I also talked to Snipy on another thread where he essentially said, by his own logic, that he has no right to be on here crying about quitters because he can just join a premade. He just says a bunch of garbage he doesn’t actually believe.
You are also correct in that the ONLY reason to complain about people wanting a premade vs premade queue, is because they enjoy stomping pugs, that is it. It’s the opposite of PvP.
I also find it funny that everyone comes in with this “but i just beat a premade as a solo queue” this is an anomaly. If it wasn’t, people would PLAY WSG instead of sitting in GY as a ghost. Players respond to incentives and when things are enjoyable. This is clearly a Blizzard problem and not a “players giving up” problem. It is their responsibility to create an enjoyable experience, especially when they decide to gate BiS items behind rep you can only gain in WSG PvP. At this point, they need to just remove solo queueing or something. Make it clear that this game isn’t made for people who like to hop in and have casual BGs against other pugs. Don’t even give people the option.
I’m sure everyone involved in this discussion has had games like this, but to think the exception validates the rule is simply bad faith.
The people defending premades are bad-faith actors, because they don’t want to ever be challenged. They view it’s their right to ruin the game for others by ensuring participation is impossible.
Either this, or give the solo-queue’s a little message in the “Join” window… “hey, you’re about to play against a 10/10 preform, are you sure you want to join”? I wonder how many people would continue into those games?
A little context on my perspective:
Hey, I queue solo BGs as much as I queue premades. I’m someone who solo queues myself. And while there’s of course a chance that some people who are asking for solo queues are genuinely playing and participating, I don’t believe this is true for the most part. It seems to be that people want to queue into teams that carry them to wins, while they sit around and do nothing.
These are the same people who are being GY camped while doing nothing or even worse, while berating other people on their team for attempting to follow BG objectives.
So, while it’s quite probable that some people are coming from a genuine place where they feel beat down by being matched with these drag-me-downs all the time, and have given up hope, I’m quite skeptical that rewarding the bad actors is a good solution.
Quitters, throwers, and botters can queue into other teams of quitters, throwers, and botters with the expectation that some people on their team will perform BG objectives and carry them to rewards.
I don’t enjoy Battlegrounds or Rated Battlegrounds in Retail. So, while we could discuss the logic of what makes its systems better, that simply isn’t my personal preference.
Of note: I currently have no problems with BGs, other than sometimes feeling frustrated by being matched with quitters and throwers when I solo queue. Ideally, in my opinion, they would be removed from the game. However, at least I am able to form my own groups and refuse to play with them, if or when they become so unbearable that I no longer wish to even queue and risk having to deal with such unfun teammates.
Seems to me that if you remove those who aren’t participating, you no longer have any issues.
You keep dancing around the fact that it is impossible for players to do anything about being graveyard camped.
You just refuse to accept that it’s happening, and there’s nothing that can be done about being globaled on spawn.
You continue to just lie, because you can’t handle the notion of fighting other premades - that might actually be a challenge, so you construct this fiction in your head that everyone getting globaled are just being passive or quitting because they’re dying as soon as they rez.