From what I recall this is how it was originally. I am fine with this.
Subs didn’t really start to decline until that last year of MoP when Blizzard sat on the same patch for an entire year.
People were really upset towards the end of Wrath because they got rid of the talent trees, that’s probably more accurate.
RDF was and is extremely popular. I’ll argue against raid finder, but RDF is one of the best parts of WoW.
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so like i said if you look at it like six months behind you see growth velocity dwindling rapidly starting right around the 1st month of TOC at an alarming rate and anyone could have extrapolated that out to predict how the next year would look with decent accuracy. again this doesnt point toward RDF, but in my personal experience rdf didnt help it.
We all thought RDF would help.
I was cheering as it came into the game the first time.
And boy was i wrong to, i didnt understand the fundamental way it would change the beginning of cataclysm. and phase 1 of every proceeding expansion until Legion introduced Mythic 0s with no RDF
This never happened. Cata had talent trees.
If that’s the case, then the end of TBC was the issue, which kind of makes sense. Not a lot of guilds cleared Sunwell.
Growth of the game from end of TBC into Wrath was essentially stagnant, and through Wrath not much changed up or down. There was a bit of an increase mid/late xpac, with a peak in Cata before major downturn.
Either way, this has nothing to do with RDF in either way. Even if there was correlation, you still can’t pinpoint any one single factor that caused any of this.
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They lost two million subs between 2010 and 2011. Another 1 million lost by 2012, and 2 mil by 2013. They gained 2.2 mil for WoD release, then lost 3 mil by 2015. By 2018 they dropped down to 1.7 mil subs total.
Not with a large amount of the original player base, which is much larger than it’s current retail player base.
I don’t think anyone can actually prove this either way, and “both sides” like to claim it to be true for their side.
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it was an issue and is def the first point when you see the grow velocity go negative.
Oh i def thought i was clear in saying this, i agree with this 100% it points out TOC more than much of anything else.
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I will admit I might have skipped over where you said that so my bad!
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which also make sense, because rdf doesnt exist in a vacuum and theres a whole science dedicated to sociology and popularity, what people like and dislike and in what contexts. Its very dubious what the numbers say, and very much up to personal interpretation.
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Edit: The below was written with a misunderstanding of the context of the initial “6 month” statement.
*If you define this metric just willy nilly in a callous attempt to support a point you’re trying to make.
Alright, so guys, we’re just going to accept this random number I pulled out of my backside that I decided was what it was because that’s what fits my agenda.
Man so many “Hidden Replies”
Jordan Goaterson is hella triggered rn i guess.
Im not allowed to have a reasonable discussion with someone who disagrees with me about a system in a video game LAWL
I hurt his feeling so bad this one time now hes obsessed with me, desperately trying to get me to read his replies, kinda creepy btw.
I’m sure hidden at all times except when you have them open to read them. Not that it actually matters. I can’t reason someone out of a conclusion they didn’t reason themselves into, but I’m helping to keep track of your lies and general bad faith argumentation for the people reading the thread. There are a lot of them, so it would be understandable for anyone to struggle a bit.
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I honestly think you’re taking this a little too far.
Nyseine and I have had a pretty decent back and forth here about the topic.
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Edit: The below was written with a misunderstanding of the context of the initial “6 month” statement.
Is lying part of a decent back and forth?
Genuine question. In what way is he not lying by randomly asserting something he has zero basis for (the “6 months to level” bit) and then using that to push his point?
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Cross-realm bgs were in like 15% of Vanilla, but were in Classic. He has absolutely no argument.
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its tiring telling you this, but blizzard purposefully left it out of the game for a reason. gaslighting us is doing yourself no favors.
Here’s the way I look at it. It wasn’t a “lie” it was an estimate.
I took his estimate, and used that estimate to make a subsequent point. If indeed it were true, and there were a 6 month lag time, then made a point about TBC etc.
Not everything is a “fight” around here because people disagree.
They even said explicitly to me they didn’t think RDF is the sole reason for any kind of change in the playerbase. In that same thought, literally NOBODY (pro or anti RDF) can make such claims.
Some people thikn RDF is good for the game, some think it’s bad. It’s all opinion, none of it is fact.
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That word. I don’t think you have even the slightest clue what it means.
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Edit: The below was written with a misunderstanding of the context of the initial “6 month” statement.
An estimate that happened to, purely by chance, be the exact length which would support his idea that RDF was the source of his “velocity of subs” change? Just a good-faith estimate and not him fitting the reasoning he pretends to have to the results he wants to see for the Nth time?
True. People can disagree amicably, but no one is entitled to engage in bad faith and proceed uncontested. That way lies chaos. See you are obviously engaging in good faith. You may be mistaken on the issue of Nyseine’s veracity, but you yourself actually believe the words you are committing to your comments, and aren’t intentionally trying to misrepresent anything. You have a baseline respect for the very idea of dialogue, and the importance of earnestness. Nyseine does not. Aguy does not. They have proven it time and time again, with the latter outright admitting to it earlier today.
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