This dumb system wouldn’t have been forced into the game if Mythic Raiders could have just been content with loot being loot and getting an item from a boss.
You act like raiders were fine when the drop-rates were reverted and they weren’t. They whined. They whined they wanted set bonuses back, they whined that they wanted Mythic raid loot to be better than M+ loot, they whined they wanted loot that wasn’t “boring” (read: imba free-stat weight properties baked into them).
Obviously I blame Blizzard for listening, but Blizzard wouldn’t have had anything to list to if people weren’t whining.
Because raiders wanted meta-progression / content-nerfs-via-gear systems but also whined the expansion had “too many systems”… so Blizzard baked the raid meta progression into those gems, and those gems are usable outside the raid. And the rest is history.
Just want to add my two cents that I completely agree it’s acceptable to throw raiders under the bus because Blizzard is unable to create any content I find rewarding. It’s all their fault, not the fault Blizzard is asleep at the wheel
Casuals are actually the most toxic people on these forums lol
There is literally not a chance you will notice the difference between having domination gems vs regular gems in any content other than raid. You are being entirely dishonest acting as though you will be “gimped.”
I just simmed your character without some of your domination gems
In most cases, it’s anywhere between a -20 and -60 DPS loss to not have the domination gems equipped and have either nothing or have a haste gem in its spot.
It is just absolute nonsense that that is “gimping you;” and don’t even bother with the leech nonsense. That’s even less noticable, especially as a Guardian Druid
I feel like it’s incredibly arrogant for you to so confidently tell me - someone that raids and has raided for the better part of a decade - what raiders actually want out of raiding. Why is it you think you know better than me why people show up to raid?
If all we cared about was the gear, why would we continue to show up to raid after we’re all fully geared? When we down the final boss in the raid, there’s typically only 1 or 2 upgrades we still need. Why is it that we proceed to show up and have fun every single week clearing through the raid?
Why did we continue to play when Benthic was a thing, because we could just get full benthic and do 85% of our character progression without even stepping into the raid?
I would submit that actually, the people who stay subscribed through content droughts, the ones that don’t just go go go go go and get the shiny thing at the end and then cancel until the next patch, the ones that don’t absolutely devour all of the expensive new content the instant it’s released and dump a bunch of cash into mounts and pets and toys, are Roleplayers and Collectors.
And yet, in this expansion, Archaeology is gone. Pet battling remains buggy and broken to this day. The legacy content buff still doesn’t work right for Legion raids. Transmog restrictions were clearly designed by the most fussy, pedantic, nitpicky person they could find on their staff. Flying had to be pried out of their cold, dead hands, and will never be in place for Korthia or the Maw. Loot drops were severely curtailed and Titanforging was pitched out the window because raiders didn’t feel like enough of a pretty, pretty princess if other, lesser people also had one or two nice things. There is no gear that drops from Torghast, and the few pets and toys and transmog that the place has drop too inconsistently to really attract collectors until they can blaze through it with less effort a few years down the line.
I’d submit that they flopped because they weren’t designed to be fun, they were lengthy slogs that took up huge chunks of time and effort and yet they didn’t provide anything that anyone actually wanted because if even one raider somewhere felt like they might get a .001% bonus to their DPS if they did anything but log in on raid night, put in their few hours of progression and log out again they would throw a gigantic baby tantrum.
But they keep hiring raiders exclusively in upper design and management who get carried to nice things just because people think it’s cool to have a lead developer with their guild tag, so raiders end up being over-represented in content priority from the ground up. When time and funding is too short to go around, it’s clear that high-end raiding is untouchable despite the fact that a relatively tiny percentage of players even participate in the content at the highest levels.
I have no idea who you or “Ddzz” are, I see someone making pro-raid argument I take it as coming from a raider. And majority of pro-raiders arguments I’ve seen on this forum are just that, demanding to have edge over non-raiders, because they “deserve it”.
No, that’s the edgelord delusion you make up in your head to justify anti-raider angst rather than using your time to give Blizzard quality feedback on content that you actually do want rather than what you don’t want raiders to have.
Accretion (Shard of Kyr’s absorb) is 10-13% of my self-sustain and I’m playing a Bear who has UFR. Dude, why are you arguing with me about M+? I literally play it.
The gems are obviously nowhere near as potent as they are in the raid, duh, but they’re very much impactful. I believe every single top 100 M+ player is running Kyr. It’s simply too good. People are running 239 or 246 stuff to sneak that into their stat template. Don’t tell me it doesn’t matter, lol. I run the content.
Because the high M+ scene is pretty much synonymous with the raiding community. They’re the same players.
But the high M+ scene is also a smaller demographic than the raiding scene, so your argument is literally hypocriticial. You want design changes to benefit the top M+ players but not the larger raiding community?
You’re confusing the point. As a tank, you can do pretty much every bit of content in the game without min/maxing your character. It doesn’t matter if it’s 10-13% of your self sustain because for the overwhelming majority of the games content, including getting Keystone Hero, it isn’t necessary. You are not by any means “gimped” for not having it.
It is nowhere near the same as a DPS player not having their domination set in raid.
Missing those bonuses are nowhere near as bad for non-raiders as they are for raiders, so to act like it’s as punishing to anyone BUT raiders is just ignorant. If you’re comparing yourself to the top 100 M+ players, you have to know that you are comparing yourself to a SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER DEMOGRAPHIC OF PLAYER than the raiding community, so your argument is literally backwards and hypocritical.
The obvious solution is make gear cosmetic only and player power stagnant at the level cap so nobody feels forced to do anything they don’t want to do.
??? Except there has been more casual
Friendly systems in the past 7 years then in the entirety of wow before that. Arguably catering to casuals and not actually pushing out dungeon and raid content that has continually brought players back since classic is causing the downfall. Your just flat out wrong
Many raiders whine about getting stuck on wall bosses, they whine when the game hands out aura buffs, they whine about being “patronized” by bosses being nerfed, and they whine when raid power-gains are time-gated by mechanics like Renown. At a certain point when you cut off all these avenues, some kind of weekly lock-out raid currency system that supplements loot is clearly what raiders seem to be asking for.
Which is hilarious because most raiders get mad when they are progging on a boss and it gets nerfed because they didn’t kill to kill the “original version” of the fight.
Just look to what happened on Painsmith this tier, it hits different if you kill it post nerf.
I think we just need to realize that most people on these forums have no idea what Mythic raiders want, they just want to keep using us as a scapegoat for why they hate the game.
See that’s the point, the moment someone mentions paths of progression outside of raiding, here comes the pro-raiding “edgelord” as you say, preaching how people “don’t deserve” to have anywhere near comparable power-levels of raiding, as raiding is a pinnacle of skill yada yada. Some even demanding to tone down M+ gear.
Yet I don’t see much of non-raiders demanding nerfs to raiding gear, what I see is a lot of pro-raiders demanding to have non-raiding gear nerfed, as “why do raid then?!!?”
Maybe you’re not one of them, but it doesn’t matter, as we have what we have.
You are 100% correct but trying to explain that to someone who’s an lfr hero they won’t understand it, all they understand is participation trophy’s and don’t get wow is declining because of it
But these same raiders expect to beat the boss pre-nerf. Not necessarily by getting better, because some raiders simply suck, but simply due to the fact that if they pull it enough times, they expect it to die. Not everyone is going to beat the boss if they get walled by it with no incidental power gains happening. And guilds straight up blow up and players quit if they get walled out (and newsflash, people unsubbing is voting with their wallet even if they don’t mean to - someone who quits the game because their raid blew up because they got walled is effectively saying “I won’t pay for this game if my guild disbands on a boss”).
Blizzard has made every effort to ensure “wall bosses” don’t exist, because wall bosses, when you consider that the ultimate metric for whether someone enjoys the game is whether they’re subbed or not, are not liked.