Exactly. Even the weakest of gromits can daze and dismount you with a single melee attack, and the rift is worse because two kinds of mobs can root you at range.
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Raiders are annoying as all hell.
They think they deserve the best gear cause they spend hrs on bosses.
Raid gear should be nerfed in pvp so itâs practically useless.
And you should be able to get raid gear in mythics like before. If they think it takes away from there effort so be it, let them do raid for the transmog.
Ignoring the fact that far more than 10% of the population participates in the raid in one way or another, you are entirely missing the point. There are more resources going into non-raid content than there is raid content. Thatâs a fact. Thatâs not arguable.
What you are doing is conflating not having equal rewards to the raid with not having content outside of the raid being designed. Again, that is entirely not true. As I said;
If you slap 246+ look onto those game modes, they donât all of a sudden become enjoyable. Itâs still the exact same content. If the only thing you enjoy is the reward at the end, youâre not going to ever be happy. Because even as raiders we hardly care about the reward as much as we do the content. The reward is a means to an end. So say you get all your free loot from easy game modes, then what do you do after youâre fully geared? The same as youâre doing now.
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Those damn raiders making you get stuck on objects in the zone. Smh!
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So is that why, the argument we hear here âIf we add gearing options outside of the raid, there is no reason to do the raidâ?
Itâs an rpg, and as it is in any rpg the end goal is to make your character as strong as possible, and the main factor that drives people in to raiding is gear progression.
And how is it different from raiding having that 246+ slapped to it? If raiding is such an enjoyable content, surely it doesnât need exclusive power-levels locked behind it, to compete with other content?
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Done on purpose. It seems every mob in SL has a daze ability. I had to go over to the mount equipment that keeps you from being dazed and dismounted.
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Yet the entire Domination Socket system is universally reviled by Mythic raiders while still being a crap system for the other game modes.
Yet they specifically nerfed raid and M+ loot to the ground in early 9.0. The raid loot in particular was so unsalvageably bad that Blizzard emergency hotfixed it back to more reasonable droprates after about a month because the raiding scene was in total jeopardy because nobody was getting gear from the raid.
Raiders didnât complain about there being too much loot. They complained about there being a ton of loot but none of it was good because it had layer after layer of RNG attached to it. The Titanforging problem was simple: like 5 people in a 20 man raid would get loot, but more often than not nobody would even use the loot because it wasnât high enough ilvl because of an arbitrary Titanforge or random socket.
Because the hardest content should offer the best rewards. There is NO world where, in a multiplayer game, an LFR boss or a World Quest should have even a slight chance of dropping a piece that compares to if not outright eclipses a reward from a Mythic raid boss.
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Some raiders did complain about too much loot.
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I donât really understand why you even reply to me. I donât agree with what you consider bad and you donât agree with me what I consider bad.
My biggest problems with this patch are Stygian Embers, Domination Sockets, Domination Gems, and how pitiful M+ itemization is this patch, as well as how all these things contribute to alt-unfriendly the patch is. It has nothing to do with your Covenant whining. Most of those issues are a result of raiders whining about the state of Castle Nathria loot. Castle Nathria loot was bad to be fair, but actually almost ruining the entire patch to pander to Mythic Raiders⌠well it is pretty obvious why the âcrusadeâ continues. Whining Mythic Raiders are why we continue to get systems like this and why many of us arenât happy with the pandering.
It was still undeniably meant to appease Mythic Raiders.
They ripped out Loot+ at the behest of raiders and then buffed loot drop-rates until raiders were happy? Youâre not in any way debunking what Iâm saying but instead providing further proof of it.
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The point of higher item level gear being added to the raid is because over time it allows lesser skilled teams to participate further into it, increasing engagement and time played. It isnât just being distributed for no reason, itâs not just so people can have a bigger number next to their name. It acts as a natural ânerfâ to the bosses, because not everybody is good enough to defeat it with the gear you enter into the raid week 1 with.
That is some peoplesâ end goal in an RPG. That is not everyonesâ end goal. And if that IS your end goal, then you need to be prepared to do whatever it is that offers those rewards to reach your goal. This is where your miscue is; you are assuming everyone is only chasing rewards like you.
Raiders whined because Blizzard went out of their way and for the CN patch removed 1 piece of loot from every boss to artificially inflate the length of the tier, it also more or less forced many raiders to revert to PvPing to obtain gear because it was so scarce from raid. It was so bad Blizzard changed their mind and fixed it.
Iâm sorry I must have missed the mental gymnastics you made to compare some of the worst systems ever introduced in WoW with it being raiders faults. We hate embers, sockets and gems. How on earth can you sit there and pretend that somehow them trying to cater to us is our fault when nobody likes the system?
Are you just trying to find a scapegoat or ?
Raiders lost access to loot master because casuals were too dull apparently to not join groups with master looter enabled so complained until it was removed. That is a fair claim because itâs exactly what happened.
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So, why exactly are you against game having same gear progression outside of those raids, it doesnât affects your raiding.
Thatâs the problem with raiding, you are minority that always demands that all the rest should be below you in power-level for some reason.
Play your content if you enjoy it so much, right? But you wonât enjoy it if it doesnât makes you superior power-wise to others.
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This is like me saying whining anti-raiders are why locked covenants and conduit energy exist. You can point to any flaw and justify that it was done to appease x community.
Domination Sockets and Gems could not possibly be the result of raiders âwhining.â The problem with Nathria loot had nothing to do with what dropped from the raid, it had to do with how strong PVP loot was and there being nothing to separate PVP rewards from raid rewards.
The strongest gear for x content shouldnât come from y content. Itâs like when everyone had to farm Benthic rewards; Benthic items themselves were not BIS for anyone other than raiders, because the effects were not good in content other than raid. Yet everyone assumed since raiders wanted it that it was also BIS for them, but it just literally wasnât. It was silly that the best raid items came from turning over rocks in the world. If those things were the best WQ items, sure.
And in the same way, if you donât raid⌠domination sockets and gems donât actually negatively effect you, so how on earth could it âruinâ the patch for you? These things arenât even active in things like M+. If you donât raid, they donât impact you. Theyâre only a negative for raiders.
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Yes, they do.
Yes, they are. Youâre objectively wrong. The set bonuses arenât turned on but the gems do apply and are worth 13-15 ilvls in many cases. Kyr alone is worth 330 stamina roughly 50 leech⌠it is literally make-or-break on whether something will one shot you for certain boss mechanics (Tyrannical Echelon comes to mind if you donât have a displacement mechanic or low CD defensives).
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Why is it that you think I care what you have? You could be full 252 gear and you would still have absolutely no impact on how I enjoy the game. You arenât competing for my raid spot, you donât invest the same amount of time into learning your class, the item level you have means nothing to me.
What I care about is what I have to and want to do in game. I would never want to feel compelled to do something like Torghast for max iLvl loot. Itâs bland and mind numbing to me, so the more I feel like I should do it the worse it would be. And I think thatâs true for a lot of people, not just whoever you want to call a minority as if the people that share your opinions are any kind of majority.
So, why exactly are you against game having same gear progression outside of those raids,
I legitimately donât even know what you are referring to when you say this to me. What âgear progressionâ do you think you should have outside of raids?
M+ already guarantees you get a max item level reward once a week. Legendaries are the best items you can get in the game and they effectively come from Torghast, weekly WQâs, and the mission table. Sockets and conduit upgrades come from WQâs. What else do you want outside of raid? How quickly do you want to be able to max out your character?
The set bonuses arenât turned on but the gems do apply and are worth 13-15 ilvls in many cases. Kyr alone is worth 330 stamina roughly 50 leech⌠it is literally make-or-break on whether something will one shot you for certain boss mechanics
I have absolutely no idea what I just read lmao. How the hell does that ruin the entire patch for you? BY FAR the largest power acquisition from the domination sockets comes from the bonus. Like, itâs not close. The gems that are, for the most part, of marginal benefit could not possibly âruin the patchâ for you. All of the disdain for the system was about the bonus.
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My alts will be perpetually gimped unless I raid with them every week.
It isnât about where the biggest power acquisition comes from. Itâs the fact that my alts will be perptually missing power that they can never get unless I spend hours every week on every alt for months to get my Stygian Embers.
Dude, again, I donât care what you consider bad about the system. I donât care what Mythic Raiders hate about the system. I care about what %%%%s M+ers. Got it? I do not care what you consider bad about the system. It matters to M+ers how it impacts M+ and thatâs about it. I mean obviously I can offer you some sympathy, but I only really care in so far as it negatively ruins the content I primarily enjoy.
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Iâm not addressing you in particular, but the raiders argument seen here in general.
Youâre participating in content that only minority of players engage with, and demand to have exclusive power-level gains locked behind this content, remove that exclusivity and those 10% would turn in to 1%, as the content itself is not so appealing, and without forcing factor of exclusive gear, would see same levels of engagement as warfronts.
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Oh my god again how is the fault of raiders? We play alts too you know we are in the exact same scenario as you. Why on earth you think this has anything to do with us keeps me up at night scratching my head. What possible reason do you think we are in favour of embers?
Ddzz and I are like 66% of the population of raiders who actually use these forums, stop trying to do the whole âoh iâm talking about other raiders on hereâ because we donât care what gear you get.
This is nonsense. In 9.0 you could get a set of gear equivalent to Normal raid gear from world content and the Covenant campaign alone. Legion and BfA were not nearly as generous.
The rest of your points are closer to the mark but generally overstated.
Just wanted to say here that I completely agree that this 100% focus on only what raiders want is one of the many reasons so many players are unhappy with the game.
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