Genn was nice to have as an Alliance leader because he was an actually flawed character and his presence would always let the door open for faction antagonism
I’m fine with Tess though, she does need to embrace the Worgen curse however, and then she’ll be good to go
I’ve had a soft spot for Tess since the Legion rogue hall. She’s not a favorite or anything but I like her well enough. Her biggest issue as leader is not being a worgen.
If they didn’t want to walk back her decision in the heritage quest, then have it happen by accident. Someone accidentally bites her in the middle of combat. Give the worgen curse some edge back.
Poor Magni I guess.
Need more Hearthstone Tess imo.
Long as they flesh her out and make her interesting, I would be down for that. 
While, yes, this is fantastic, this isn’t even the best part.
He can be the Horde’s villain without being fundamentally, factually evil.
He actually is a flawed, morally grey character. Maybe WoW’s only one.
Greymane indeed.
!! Yes, that’s very true, it’s a balance WoW hardly ever manages to strike and this makes the loss twice as bad
(miss u treng)
I don’t agree simply because of the suspicious prominence of Calia Menethil, who sometimes shows up at various in-game events as the Forsaken representative instead of Lilian. It’s kind of like the way both Alleria and Umbric represent the Void Elves in similar situations.
My main objection to Gazlowe is that, like Lilian Voss, he’s a neutral NPC brought in to replace a faction-loyal one. I would rather have them “promote from within,” to develop the roster of actual Horde characters more. (Plus, I always thought Gallywix was funny, but oh well.)
The idea is to not make he a carbon copy of her father. Also if she had gone that way, we’d now be hearing from the GamerGate crowd which makes up a larger precentage of Wow’s subscriber base than the roleplayers.
You may notice that he really hasn’t been spending time in the throne room since the beginning of Shadowlands. We’re actually in the THIRD expansion of him being an absentee King.
Her father didn’t get out much either. She’s pretty much doing the same, focusing on her actual job.
If you played Hordeside BFA, Lilian has a rather defining quest line. Callia, not so much. Her only real activity was durin the (somewha) reclamation of Lordaeron Ciry.
Be fair. The reclamation of Lordaeron was fully and completely about calia to the point that calia went to places she had no business going while characters like the apothecary guy I can never remember the name of didn’t.
Remember when Calia went to the Necromancy planet and went up to a high-ranking superlich and said:
“Ma’am, people on the forums are complaining about me being a ‘Light-Undead,’ can you please tell them to shut up?”
and she answered
“Of course, my dear perfect girl.”
Then the Superlich stared straight into the camera and said:
“Light-undead are fine. They’re awesome, actually. Shut up. Leave Calia alone.”
This what experts call “Character development.”
lol u nailed it
I couldn’t have said it better myself. It was so blatant when I witnessed it in the questline, I had to get up from my desk and go stare out a window.
She had every buisness being there. She was the front woman for approaching Greymane with peace overtures as well as helping Jaina’s brother in his transition.
The major dislike about Callia is probably due to the fact that she doesn’t have a rotten zombie body. Ironically much of that is from folks who want those sexy undead San’'haylan.
She has every business going to the shadowlands to learn the secrets of alchemy that she couldn’t possibly remember without any training to do so?
Tell me more.
It’s quite a bit more than that, Drah. To quote myself:
You know very well she’s never going to do anything monstrous.
- There’s no curse if she touches you…
- She doesn’t crave flesh or blood…
- Her body is preserved so she doesn’t have to worry about maintaining herself…
- She’s not a spirit, so she doesn’t have the downside of lacking corporeality, or had to possess her own body to get it back…
- No one ever controlled her in this state, so she’s never lost her autonomy…
- She’s friends with the entire Alliance cast, so she certainly was not banished or rejected for being what she is…
So yeah, you could replace her with the living version of herself and nothing would change. It’s not like Blizzard has to make it a point that she doesn’t need to eat anymore, because when’s the last time you saw Jaina sit down for dinner before being interrupted while she was hungry, or needing to go run off and find a spot to use as a latrine while she was stuck in the Maw?
I’m serious, you could just give her back her living body and absolutely no part of the Forsaken story she’s participated in would need to change. None whatsoever. At no point did her undeath matter to what she said, what she did, or what she was capable of. She doubts and pouts just fine as a living human woman.
That’s how pointless and worthless she is.
I love how nothing needs to even be said with them 
Baine was decent to an extent with Thomas Zelling in BFA – but sadly however they utterly butchered that whole storyline — I felt like it would’ve been GRAND for the Forsaken to keep a complex & cool character like Thomas Zelling in the story, and you could’ve also done a throwback to how the Tauren had a decent relationship with the Forsaken (given they were originally instrumental into bringing them into the Horde in the first place / would’ve been neat to repeat such similarities with Kul’Tiran Forsaken) buuuut ugh, they squandered such potential 
Anyway …
I felt the same way about Executor Nizrek honestly. 
They gave me the sinister wisdom vibes & effective cunning that the Forsaken use to carry with them.
100% this she never needed to be undead, she has no downsides to being undead, she is not cursed, she is not outcast, she is nothing more then a literal white saviour
You just reminded me of how fantastic of a character he was, and how much of a pointless waste it felt like to kill him. He felt like an embodiment of what the forsaken were. A person who was outright rejected as a monster by his living family – that’s the beating heart of their story. (It’s WHY Calia can never represent her people – she’s BFFs with the Alliance and doesn’t feel monstrous or outcast from the living in any way).
And Zelling was killed because… it made Sylvanas look evil and Baine look weak in a mediocre cinematic.
I love playing devil’s advocate but that story decision will never make sense to me.
That’s what gets me. All three of the nerubian conspirators (Arak’nai, Anub’azal, Nizrek) are all excellent characters. They have distinct personalities and values. You get the feeling that they actually have lives outside of their work. Most of the nerubians feel more like the forsaken than the forsaken do, nowadays.
On that note, shoutout to Faerin Lothar for actually having hobbies and feeling like a person. Hell, Councilward Merrix too.
I know this thread involves a lot of doomsaying and narrative bashing but on an optimistic note (unthinkable in the story forum, I know) I actually think TWW has been really moving in the right direction in terms of the characters it’s introduced.
However it also makes the undercooked characters look absolutely raw in comparison.
I’m not at home, quote me too
It’s ok, Baine forgives you. Help yourself to some Horde land so you don’t feel bad.