Not really. The two styles have different concepts, prioritizations, and degrees they employ them to. Japanese gamers just have a different audience and they adopted different gameplay styles compare to Westerners. They tend to be more text based (which is also why those anime visual novels are so popular), have less audio dialogue, employ more grindiness as gameplay, have more over top armor etc. Soulsborne games doesn’t really follow the traditional JRPG model and it’s more aligned with WPRG styles.
But it’s a bit of a fallacious ambiguity there. At which point do you say something is old enough that players should stop being courteous to newcomers? Is 18 years really that large of a difference from 12 that it’ll evolve players from acting one way to another? What if it 18 and 16? 18 and 17? Now if FF was 2 years old, perhaps you’d have a point, but otherwise I don’t think so.
How do you know they’re new then? Someone trolling vs. someone being new is completely different.
Does this mean we should abandon all attempt to curb toxicity? I am not going to pretend like I have all the answers, but if one game is known for a better community and another doesn’t surely something explains the difference.
That’s like saying all western RPGs are the same, it’s stupid. If every game coming out of Japan was as you say, like 90% of the games wouldn’t be classified as JRPGs.
I’m going to add to the thread only, that FF14 does better holiday events compared to WoW, yesterday i updated that thing for the clown set and it was better that hallow’s end on WoW with a single boss fight related to a massive RNG drop.
I did 2 runs and got the full set, it was an interesting idea of a full whole dungeon but you didn’t have abilities instead as WoW does on some quest, you changed your bars to a 2 button powers, a holy water vial and another thing.
Also i got a pop up about something of a returning player after 45+ days even when my account is a free trial and that my experience will be increase and i got added to a returning player chat.
I think your points are interesting but ultimately I don’t agree with all of them. A returning player who picks up Shadowlands right now has more than enough gear options at a super low price to max out a 190 ilevel. That is way cheaper than when Castle Nathria was the only raid. Also 190 ilvl is pretty solid ilvl for starting Mythic dungs and doing Castle Nathria. Clearly you also can EASILY get geared from Korthia that would push you past 190 into the mid 200s so gearing up should not be a problem.
As far as your other points about community, FFXIV largely has WoW's old community that has left the game for one reason or another. So you are fooling yourself if you say FFXIV community is less toxic cause X,Y, Z. I have heard several streamers and blogs talking about the toxicity that exists in that game.
At the end of the day, you have a preference. You cannot change WoW into FFXIV and I cannot change FFXIV into WoW. You can also choose to play both and enjoy each for its own worlds, style, and gameplay but what I personally have gotten annoyed with is the constant comparisons and "Lets hate on one cause I like the other."
I’ve avoided ffxiv since I last played it. But not for the reasons that I dislike it but I don’t want another mmo draining my time. It honestly was a fun game. There were things that I found very odd and had to get used to. Then again that could be said for every mmo. When I came from daoc to wow many, many years ago it was such a big difference between the two games. Quests? What are those? Leveling solo how is that even possible?
Crafted gear in FF XIV at max level for hardcore players may indeed be better than what’s available in WoW. I can’t say since I haven’t yet hit max level in FF XIV. But since this post is supposed to be about the casual/beginner experience it’s a pointless statement and you are destroying your own argument right out of the gate. No one needs to worry about crafted gear in FF XIV during the levelling experience since you are continually getting gear upgrades from quests and Duties.
Again, similar to your Item 1, this may be a technically true statement that’s pointless given your ostensible topic. Stay on Target, Gold Leader.
This is not the fault of WoW, it is the fault of players, and not all players are like this anyway.
I’ve levelled a Dragoon to Level 51 and I have never seen a mentor, never spoken to a mentor, and never had anything in game point me to a mentor. And I am still flagged as a “sprout”. WoW could be a bit more friendly in this regard but FF XIV is no better.
No. I’ve never seen anyone get vote-kicked in any WoW content unless they just go AFK with no explanation or are being trolls. This happens far less than some folks say it does. If you are getting kicked from content a lot, you need to look at your own performance/behavior. I myself am a very mediocre group member at best regardless of my role but I have never ever been kicked from a group. Also, people act like the community in FF XIV is some wonderful place and that of WoW is awful. I’ve run into great people recently in WoW, and I’ve run into toxic a-holes in FF XIV. It’s the same all over, jerks are jerks regardless of what game they are playing.
Not really, occurring at higher and higher rates. My friend had it happen to them twice tanking start of SL simply for stating they hadn’t done the dungeons yet. This was towards the end of the first week of release. They stopped queueing for dungeons after that, quite honestly.
Overall? FFXIV is definitely better, and it’s because the game and enforcement requires them to be. If you vote to kick someone from a dungeon there, it has to be for something that actually merits it. Like being AFK for a while, being awful to people, etc. Further, you can queue a lot of content there with bots so you’re not required to be in a group with people if you know you might have to AFK/Don’t know stuff etc.
I’m doing that right now on my Priest. Admittedly I fumbled around a bunch, but I think that’s part of the frustration a lot of people have.
What I did.
Ran normal dungeons back to back.
Wasn’t sure if that was optimal so I started doing the covenant story.
Joined a guild.
Learned you can buy renown up to 40, but was already at 40 renown.
Finally read that quest rewards are upgraded based on renown.
Stepped into a mythic at 195 ilvl.
Learned that M0 is 210 ilvl.
Understood end-game for the most part now.
A lot of fumbling with zero direction from the game. This is honestly one of the peeves I had with FF14 as I was leveling. I had no idea I had a currency I could use to buy gear every 10 levels. Made me hard quit the first time around.
Now that I know the WoW grind process at end-game, it’s honestly not that bad. You can spam dungeons to get your covenant stuff working, and the Korthia stuff drops the soulbind thingies. Only big time drag is the MSQ, and figuring all that out.
No, not all RPGs are the same, but you can track how certain game influenced another and how there are common themes, tropes, or expectations. To use JRPG as an example, MHRise, Pokemon, and BOTW are all different RPGs, but they share common JRPG characteristics. Souls games break from these. Souls games have the most audio, the least text (and those item descriptions follow book lore you see in WRPGs) , and the least grinds.
But you can’t say that definitively , you’re only speculating and on poor evidence (“game is newer”). 6 year difference, SURE, but both have been out for a very long time. And the words you used are “much newer”. How do you define “much newer”? How do you define old? At which point do we get an elitist player base? That’s why it’s ambiguous. FF has existed for 67% of WoW’s lifespan. Think about that.
They do not usually say they are. Completely untrue. If they start getting flack they might reply, but they don’t as a general rule. Chat hesitancy is a new player experience. I have come to their defense plenty of times to point out they’re new and we should give leeway.
Never said you did. My point is that players sometimes attribute poor gameplay to trolling when they can just be new instead (and in fact someone above this post just did make that mistake). And this goes back to the above point, where players get kicked out of the assumption they’re trolling/griefing.
You’re so overdramatic . I didn’t put anything in your mouth.
Your argument was that there’s no system which wouldn’t get abused to which I replied this shouldn’t stop us from trying to curb toxicity.
Got any stats to back that up or is it just your anecdotal experience? That’s what I thought.
Again, got any stats to back that up? I’ve never seen anyone get vote kicked from a WoW group unless they had done the very things that you say warrants a kick in FF XIV. Now yeah, that’s anecdotal on my part. The difference is, I don’t run around saying my personal anecdotal experience is reflective of the game as a whole, because it’s not, and neither is yours.
Sure, the stats of how many posts are occurring in frequency which is the only ‘stats’ one is going to have access to.
The person (You) said it happens far less than some folks say it does but YOU provided no stats for that. That’s what I thought, another bad faith poster.
Actually, you did worse. You tried to explain that it’s both not occurring to other people at any decent frequency and that the kicks as usually ‘deserved’.
This is also the fault of the player cause WoWhead has existed for how long? You can find most everything you ever need to know on that website yet I direct people to it and they still want me to explain things to them. WoW has such an extensive library of knowledge, new players are directed to it and overlook that A LOT. You can fault a game for not telling you, but when there’s dedicated sites to it…thats your fault after while.
I agree with you but in the case of FFXIV vs WoW, FF is the winner.
The pattern for FFXIV has been the same for years. WoW seems to change almost every expansion.
Even if you direct the player to a document that helps them, it’s external information they need to find. All of that should be in the game. Both FFXIV and WoW fail at this.
Please don’t take that to an extreme either. The game shouldn’t teach them how to play their spec, or what talents are optimal.
I mean, I don’t really care about a game’s genre, but just because I don’t care, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist I play both and both genres have evolved to include more from each other’s styles. But you are ignorant if you think they don’t have unique characterizations or influences coming from their respective markets.
Way to ignore my point . BioWare games don’t have text as dialogue
Funny considering I never said that. What’s more amusing is the fact you think the only way a game can be considered a JRPG is one still using mechanics over 30+ years old.
. I didn’t put anything in your mouth.
I play both and both genres have evolved to include more from each other’s styles. But you are ignorant if you think they don’t have unique characterizations or influences coming from their respective markets.