"WoW is not a solo RPG" takes are why we need soloization

Community General Discussion
813

The Follower dungeons are for Normal Dungeons-only, for people who are too shy or have a people-phobia (can’t blame them honestly) so they can finish out the zone stories, which almost always lead to a 5-man. Anyone who has a problem with this IS an elitist gatekeeper, as they literally have no interaction with this difficulty-level after the first 36 hours of an expansion.

Actually, given what I see as healer on a regular basis, I am confident even a cursory AI for the other 4 party members will teach characters better dungeon behavior than anything they will learn from other players. If you walked into Ruby Life Pools for the first time this afternoon, there is a solid chance what you would take in from osmosis is “oh, I guess we are supposed to grab every trash mob between bosses in one pull”.

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814

Yes, please. Morrowind-style Warcraft game. Would it really be so hard, Blizzard…

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815

The mentality of forced-grouping worked back in the early days of MMORPGs, but quickly became unpopular because it turns out most people actually don’t enjoy being FORCED to group-- either they don’t have time to commit to some mythic or raid schedule, they don’t like their socialization being reduced to a damage meter or healbot , and many players definitely don’t want the toxicity that has always been and will always be present with endgame player demographics.

And most players? Are casual. Blizzard is wise to stop catering ONLY to the minority of their game and start looking at what they can do to retain their biggest playerbase: casuals.

Giving this demographic the option to experience content they could not or would not otherwise is a very good choice. It should have been done years ago. The days of MMOs being for no-lifers when being a “gamer” was a super nerdy thing to do-- long gone. And for those who still enjoy playing that way-- it’s not like Blizzard isn’t going to add raids and Mythic+ hardcore stuff and world firsts every season-- of course you’ll still get that.

But you’re no longer the sole focus, and I think that’s what REALLY makes some of the hardcore demographic mad.

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816

The only problem I see with solo content is when companies use it to say **"oh Im sorry guys we couldn’t do x ( raids,other content ) cuz we took so much time and man power to do this other thing. And then people falls into this root of blaming a group for the mistakes of a company and end up defending said company for not making content.

They def have the money, and they can hire the manpower.

817

Not reading your post it’s too long.

But I endorse the game having something to offer any play style is one of the reasons wow become so popular in its early days.

A great mystery to me is why people that only play a set “thing” ( pvp , raid, m+, just quest etc) care so passionately about what others are playing.

The it’s an MMORPG excuse is stupid. It’s also weak.

The guy questing and crafting minding their own business is not impacting your mythic raid.

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818

I agree, not to mention MMO’s are now inviting solo play to keep subscribers or create new ones.

I think people are afraid of change, it’s either me quiting and leaving for a game that suits my RL time needs or stay and keep subscribing, because WoW is beginning to suit my RL time needs.

Not everyone stays home 24/7 playing a video game and have time to burn, my bills don’t pay themselves and I need electricity to play.

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819

It’s soloable, for the most part. You can queue to complete the key instance content quests, and there is constant gear upgrades throughout the expansion nowadays. I kind of prefer this in some ways to the borrowed power currency systems we had previously that were paired with unfun gear systems like the titan continuum stuff.

The one thing I miss is being able to do things like lower your CDs over the expansion, or add little buffs to your spells, like stun also reduces damage you and your party take by 1%, 2%…, stuff like that.

820

I keep coming back to the thought process that spawned this thread as I see more and more people complaining about the broken, outdated social elements that poison the enjoyment of M+ and raiding.

I think people that unreasonably gate others in these lanes of PVE are in for a surprise when an “unexpected” slice of the late game PVE community lower their ilvl goals to enjoy delves on their own time or with a friend or two in the war within.

Not all sociability in WoW is toxic, but the stuff we tolerate for the sake of an ilvl that’s only needed in the extreme endgame where literally not everyone belongs is just mind boggling.

Maybe I’m old, maybe I lack “the killer instinct” that motivates people into this hyper competitive headspace, but I really do think Delves will change the social dynamic: by giving people a lane of WoW’s PVE endgame that they essentially own, on their time.

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821

Considering the regular complaints of similar issues, it’s safe to say there’s a lot of folks like you. It would seem like getting together to do things your preferred way wouldn’t be too hard.

Plus you’ve got lfr opening up faster now if you want to look at the fights and people pretty rarely complain about wipes/learning on day 1 in them in my experience.

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822

What’s been stopping them from lowering their ilevel goals to enjoy the available content more casually right now?

823

That’s a very good question, and I can only answer for me and the people around me:

I am doing this right now. I live in the open world and literally have a quest log full of dungeon quests that are taking up space until I can do them as follower dungeons. I am the target audience for both follower dungeons and for delves, so here’s my opinion on things.

It’s the outright codification of “this is a valid endgame path” through how it’s been presented. Delves and the overworld are getting a lane in the vault. It’s officially validated and a comfortable spot to stop.

The faster people “know their limit and play within it,” whether those limits be gameplay skill or social batteries to deal with “hell is other people” for the sake of pixel numbers, the happier we’ll all be.

Again, maybe I’m just older, maybe I’m coming at this from a minority perspective, but I watched friends around me, lapsed players, light up and re-sub when delves were announced. It’s for us, it’s supported and validated, and I’d bet money that we’re not alone in this.

Some people will be slaves to “keeping up with the neighbors” forever, absolutely, but for those that can shed this and read what feels to me like intentional writing on the wall, this is the ticket out of the “decline dirge” of M+ PUGing, and the “game of favorites” of socially unhealthy (which is not all) raiding.

There is a place for M+ and raiding. I think it’s been mischaracterized by waaaay too many people. It’s a content type for groups of friends and people with thicker skin. The way you fix “no one’s taking my class” isn’t done by anything you can do to M+ or Raiding itself, you do it by adding options.

All one has to do is… accept a smaller number on their gear.

As someone already there, I can tell you, it’s blissful, and I can’t wait for more content to enter my space. I just have to wait a little longer!

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824

I could not have said better myself. Well done!
Now… I am not kidding, I wish the system grow in a way we get to play WoW as I play Skyrim, alone if I want or with followers.
Look… the way I see it is simple, WoW needs to evolve and this is a good direction.
Skyrim is still one of the nost playable games at Steam, followers are a big part of it, hell they even have mods with followers using ChatGPT.
Imagine something like this in WoW?!
Would be really amazing.
I have been here since 2004, was a raider until WotLK and after that live just get bigger then Azeroth.
The new “solo stuff” is actually bringing a lot of old friends back to the game next expansion.
Play solo if you want, play with your followers or play with your friends.
Everybody wins.

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825

Still seems very odd that with so many folks in this boat, actually finding ways to play together was never a viable option, especially when there’s more resources than ever to do so.

826

The answer may actually be quietly between the lines of this very observation:

Online multiplayer isn’t novel any more. It used to be the sales pitch of entire games, of an entire genre, but now it’s more like “buy this car because it has AIR CONDITIONING.” It’s not a perk or a novelty any more. In fact, it’s kind of oversaturated, and that’s happened in the lives of people that perhaps signed on to this genre when it was novel.

Owning one’s time, not borrowing it from one’s community is perhaps the new “OOOH YOU CAN PLAY WITH PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD HOLY CRAP.”

Or, again, maybe I’m just old… but I became so alongside the internet.

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827

It’s worse than that. They may be saying it is THE COMMUNITY who should decide but what they really mean is that it is the minority of people in the forums who make up the forum echo chamber who should of decide how the rest of us play.

They have no idea how the majority feels and they don’t care. The forum echo chamber decides for us what we feel about any issue.

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828

None of that really seems to answer the question. We see posts here all the time from people who want to do the content with others, but in low pressure/open to all classes/specs, etc. groups. So, there’s interest in having those interactions with people, but folks aren’t willing to do anything about it for some reason.

And, the kicker is, by doing that, people probably wouldn’t even need to temper their ilevel dreams all that much.

829

I had 24 years back in 2004, have 43 now.
Some ppl, dont get me wrong, but because they are still young they dont see it, not their fault its just not on their radar yet.
I had to stop raiding not because I did not had time, time was not the problem, it became a problem when you need to have the same time as 5-10-15 ppl.
I liked to raid a lot, was hard and kinda sad when I first realise “well cant do it tonight” and tonight became “this weekend” that became “this week” and I had to almost move my entire day just to be able to log on time.
You know what happen in this enviroment?! The game stops been fun to play, you are most of the time paying attention on others ppl mistakes other them on your fun, and you end up arguing with friends for basically a wipe and hurting yourself and your friend in the proccess.
Not because you are bad or anything, its the “I will run out of time soon” thing that makes you do that, and you start making mistakes yourself… its a mess.
After fighting this condition of “I want to play and I need to find time” for a few years I finally understood how bad it was, the game was actually quiting on me and not the other way around.
My care and love for the franchise never ended but I could not play anymore… and after a few years I saw a lot of friends suffering the same, “hey lets play togeder” “damn our schedules do not match at all”.
So I visit my home away from home in a diferent way, took some breaks from it, usually paying the sub as I always get the 6month deal.
That was it.
But after Blizzcon sundely the game who quit on me, for the first time in a long run sayed “hey you know, things will start changing around here and you may want to come back home, you, who have been a franchise supporter for 30 years will finally be able to actually play again”.
I am ready for it.

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830

So I guess my question in response to this is: What should they do about it?

831

Which they are you referring to?

They (the players) should get some groups going and have fun.

They (blizz) should keep improving the in-game guild finder and community setup.

832

So the ol’ “run your own key” then?

That’s not an answer I disagree with, I guess I just see the idea of letting “endgame PVE” start at groups as small as 1, and flex to 5 (especially speaking as one that can’t assemble 5 reliably any more myself) as a good answer here.

Blizzard IS expanding grouping options, by doing just that. They can’t control the community any more than saying “here’s content for groups of 5, groups of 10+, and now groups EVEN SMALLER than 5!”
So Blizz are doing their end, then!

Expanding guilding tools just reinforces guilds as a mandatory element, which is also an outdated mindset. They exist for people that want to form and be in them.

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