Same, I feel like MoP was the last time I could really enjoy alts, I had 6-7 alts pushing 1900 in RBG’s, It just feels like something I don’t want to even try doing in Shadowlands.
I want to be able to play all roles on a whim, but the Main Purist have made the game the way it is now, because they had nothing to do after they “capped” on their main.
i most certainly did not! i don’t think i’ve blocked anybody. (i would never block anybody just for disagreeing with me. there are plenty of people here i consistently disagree with, but i’m not losing any sleep over it. it’s a forum about a video game 
)
i just meant “doing fine” as in “managing to progress in high level content”, not as in “they’re having a blast and loving every second of the game”.
i do agree it would be nice to be able to play alts the way i could in MoP. but i have to believe blizzard has studied and determined that more people unsub once they’re “done” with their main vs creating a fleet of alts.
That may be true. They obviously have metrics that the playerbase has no access to. Personally, that has never been the case for me. I have always made a fleet of alts when I was done with my main lol. But that’s subjective. Metrics that we do have access to, however, are the current sub numbers. They are at an incredible low at the moment, and surely some of the blame could be placed on people not enjoying current systems.
3 world quest a day that don’t give you gear unless you are doing minimal things in the game.
not to mention boring.
Oh ok, good to know, others have blocked me for disagreeing with me so apologies for assuming 
Exactly what I tell others who try to get a rise outta me lol
Yup but seeing Ions more recent interview, I do think his analytics are finally showing the downside in how they are approaching this.
Basically your problems started when m+ solidified itself into the game.
Back in Wrath and Cata there was a clear end game in regards to gear and the path to the end was very linear as opposed to today.
Taking MoP into account it was roughly the same, doing your main gave you perks for your alts such as omega boosting the rep gained making alts do less dailies to get to exalted.
BFA was horrible for alts, this much is true, shadowlands started being pretty bad for alts as well but this last patch has made it much easier to ease into alts as you can see in the following points:
You can level the renown of a character to 80 is a matter of a single day, alts don’t really NEED to have all four covenants unless you really want them, you can even do two covenants to 80 in a day and to top it off, as opposed to the start of the game no one really cares anymore what covenant other people are.
Conduits are kinda guaranteed drops nowadays, check dungeon loot for the ones you’re looking for and do them in a +10 ez conduit boost, my alts have their conduits near 265 already
Jailer’s guantlet alleviates the farm for legendaries, also you can send soul ash and cinders from your main to your alts,the cosmic dust you’ll get it just doing storyline and dailies on ZM.
Gearing is rough yeah I’ll give you that and specially for pvp as for whatever reason casual battlegrounds were made so as gear was very important so it’s hell to farm honor in them on an alt as you get rolled by other people’s mains.
That’s why it’s called min-maxing, it’s hard to do by definition, WoW is not as simple as it used to be back then when it was just “get your tier and you’re done”
This is probably your worst take, double leggo is already account wide as the memory is account wide, if you really like to do end game content as much as you say so I’m sure your main has been revered with the enlightened for at least 5 days which means that by definition all your alts will be able to craft their second legendary by the time you finish chapter 7 on next reset.
I hope that means more account-wide progression at the cost of “min-maxers feeling forced to have many alts”. (which is a price i’m willing to pay 200%)
This is debatable. Doing the same thing over and over just because you want to do something a little different is 100% annoying. Some things should be account shared just like flying. I used to play tons of alts in vanilla, tbc, wrath, cata, mop. Now I would rather play solitaire than wow once im done doing my chores on my main.
I think the problem started with the massive amount of borrowed powered system, time gates for those systems and alt unfriendliness of every expansion after MOP. Cant speak for WOD, i just entirely skipped it.
I may have been mistaken in how the system worked, as I still believed I’d need exalted before I could craft on alts. Doesn’t change the fact that I’ll still need to craft second legendaries for each of my alts, which will cost millions of gold.
We often hear feedback that people are upset when they run out of goals and lack the motivation to do anything. But what we found, to our initial dismay and horror to some extent, is that a much broader range of players than we expected saw this .4% power increase that was behind something they didn’t necessarily enjoy doing as absolutely mandatory. And that’s not the outcome we wanted. The game needs to be fun. You need to log in and look forward to the adventures you’re going to have, the things you’ll do with your friends, the stuff you’re going to explore, the goals you’re going to chase, and not feel like you have a set of chores you have to accomplish before you can play the game the way you want to. As much as possible, we’re pivoting away from that and trying to offer true options without power dictating gameplay.
Seems like they are realizing things to look at for people to really just being able to jump in to enjoy the game. I doubt they’ll figure it out and probably are thinking of something entirely different.
I have little faith in 10.0 that I WILL enjoy it and SL is most definitely the last expansion I play but hope they do things more people enjoy and can stand behind but with this current team, can’t see it happening.
Usually I leave these threads alone, but I think you have valid points. Especially after enjoying a night of FFXIV doing things I didn’t know existed.
FFXIV’s gear grind is fairly straight forward. In end-game, static loot types drop. Everyone rolls for it. When you open it, it becomes whatever specialty you’re playing (Healer, magic DPS, melee, ranged physical DPS, or tank).
You can potentially get BiS in 2 months. Even then, you’re not grinding daily for the gear. It’s a 2-6 hour endeavour to run all of the raids (Presuming you can clear them). After that you do whatever else you want for the week.
I hate to say it but it’s the whatever else you want that FFXIV does way better than WoW. WoW needs to stop making the gear the grind, and start making fun other crap the grind.
I agree that there have been a lot of alt unfriendliness as of the past expansions and half of shadowlands, hopefully they back down on that for the next expansion and I have high hopes it will be the case, probably not to the point of super alt friendly expansions but a sensible way, I do understand they want your main to always be ahead of your alt and not in the same ground unless you’re a monster.
“Doing the same thing over and over just because you want to do something a little different is 100% annoying. Some things should be account shared just like flying. I used to play tons of alts in vanilla, tbc, wrath, cata, mop.”
Wasn’t alts back then just doing the same a little different too? I’d rather shoot my leg than level every class in vanilla but that’s just me.
You know what people who like to play alts dont do when they make it difficult to play alts? Level alts, do beginner dungeons, do intermediate dungeons, run heroics, mythics and lower level mythic+s. And that makes the game boring for people who cant bring themselves to play alts and the rest of the playerbase in general.
To be honest, I’m finding leveling up alts with my sister to be more fun then playing current content. There are some outdated philosophies at max level that could use some fine tuning.
Yeah, it absolutely was but after leveling you were not doing it by yourself. You were doing it in a group with your friends or other people.
FFXIV knows how to make fun systems and detach them from raid and player power, WoW is still stuck in the mentality that introducing a new system made for fun solo content (torghast) has to tie in to power progression essentialy FORCING everyone to do it (I personally enjoy this type of content but it should be done more like FFXIV does it)
If WoW made a “palace of the dead” dungeon and awarded some class specific mog and a title from it most everyone would love it, others would hate it but that would be fine if it was not mandatory for progression.
if wow is not fun for you, then step out. you’re only hurting yourself by staying.
Replying to the “palace of the dead” part, and your above references to MoP, challenge modes were a very enjoyable system personally. No character progression whatsoever, and completely meaningless in the grand scheme of min-maxing. I agree with your sentiment about M+ as well. Maybe they should have stuck with the previous design model.
Yup, and each new zone being a “catchup” zone that replaces gear you spent countless hours grinding in the previous area. As opposed to FFXIV’s rotating gear/currency system. Which has 3 million means of gaining said currency, and cool mog/titles to farm out.