I do 100% agree with due process. However, I also think that it is okay to show support for victims who come forward while we wait for due process, and I think it is equally low to say something along the lines of how “wrong” it is for people to be angry over this.
I mean… people are angry. People were wronged. There is, whatever volume, some sort of harassment. Blizzard employees have even come forward and admitted to some of it. This whole, “Don’t believe any victim until there is concrete evidence” culture is inherently toxic. When I was harassed at work, I had no hard evidence unfortunately. It happened in a room with me and two other people, both who partook, without any texts/emails, etc.
Do I think we should convict people without evidence? Nah, that’s probably a pretty dangerous thing to encourage.
Should we cancel people without evidence? Again, I believe in accountability, but cancel culture can be toxic as well.
But to automatically assume these women are lying (which is happening a ton here) is gross.
Let’s say, hypothetically, you just hypothetically physically assaulted and robbed me. Now, hypothetically, this would be impossible because I am not a goblin in real life and am much more swol than in-game, but, let’s just say hypothetically I am a goblin. Hypothetically, I am now the victim.
Yeah, it might have been very complex; in fact, some of those speaking out now that they are getting support (from within and without the company) are making it seem that some of these decisions were in fact coerced.
So it might be complex, but not in the way I believe you meant to imply. It might just happen to be much worse.
Something Kelani spoke on, that I think many people on these forums need to follow, is that: it’s okay to be outraged by this, and it’s okay to decide that you want nothing to do with WoW anymore. You’re allowed to be angry- you SHOULD be angry.
Not everyone at Blizzard is complicit and not every is in support. There are people still working on the game that were harassed and need this job to support themselves and their family.
But you know what doesn’t help anyone? Shaming, denying, or trying to wiggle around the subject of the victims and what they went through.
It doesn’t matter if the situation was complex, which is what I think most people take issue with; the idea that there is room for nuance when we know the end result. What matters is that, it happened, and the people who partook, or allowed it to happen are punished. Severely, imo.
I wouldn’t be able to stop you while you wait, even if I wanted to.
Unless it was allegedly known.
I mean, how does it get so bad that one member, jokingly, has his suite called the ‘cosby suite’ and they supposedly have to pull said member off of women, and he still works at the company for a little while. Of course he no longer does, but still.
Cubicle crawls where they get drunk and all, sounds awesome to be honest I wanna be a part of that, can drop the part with groping and harrassing female coworkers though, no interest in that, just give me the alcohol.
Ex employees now coming out saying: “It is true” blah blah blah.
I believe management have had a blind eye on it. And while I agree that individual actors are individual actors, I similarily believe that the leaders are representatives of the collective, and thus, if they turn a blind eye to the bad actors, then it is a guilty grouping.
Exactly this. There is nothing done in a workplace considered unacceptable that isn’t supported, allowed, or overlooked by management. If management told someone to ‘stop’, and then that person didn’t stop… and it continued from that point. They’re just as complicit in it occurring.
There’s a difference between those that couldn’t act because it threatened them, their livelihoods, or they were coerced into doing nothing and those in power that let it occur.
Greed will start that unscratchable itch in the board room and shareholders will cry foul wanting all the coins shook out of their customers pantaloons.
Money comes first in a Capitalistic society, always has, and always will.
They will balk at Bobby, Bobby who doesn’t care how his company is ran, will go along and push the WoW leadership to make the easy development and push more to the WoW Store and the Poor Dev’s will have to make it happen. Illegal to pay real gold for ingame stuff? no problem (as Madseason said) they bypass their own TOS by putting Tokens in to do the same thing and “somehow” that is ok.
Don’t hate the Dev’s folks. they are given their marching orders by their higher ups.
I am not satisfied with just standing on the shore and watching titanic sink. I want to be on the ship as it sink and hear the sweet, sweet lullaby of fearful screaming and crying as it slowly sinks into the ice cold waters.
And I will of course have secured a lifeboat, which I can then use to help save those still willing to fight, those brave enough to venture to new horizons, to battle new evils and go on new epic adventures!
I think its very weird how someone mentioned they hope this game dies because they want bad games to suffer and good games to flourish.
Do you not realize some people do consider WoW a good game?
M+ being an “esports” design isn’t bad either, people love those game modes. Why do you think League of Legends is still one the most played games in the world?
We as WoW players should demand a better game, but we don’t need to burn it to the ground for that to happen.
Its super yikes to me how some people don’t seem to understand that different people like different things and they seem to think that there is a “right” way to enjoy the mmo genre.
I honestly believe if they remove the toxic work environment the quality of the game will improve. This is in the best interest of employees and players.
