Aside from their blue post that there are multiple gameloops now as opposed to the single one, where they state it should feel more like original batching, which you keep ignoring ?
Not really needed, but keep linking more videos of Joana buying stuff from a vendor, thinking that proves that batching is just the same as it was in vanilla.
The vanish window alone is a joke.
You don’t understand a thing about healing. You’re under this bizarre assumption that me being fast enough to react to a burst of damage and use my LoH ability is somehow a negative.
There’s situations where the tank can take several melee hits in under 3 seconds. Sometimes the tank takes so much damage that the fastest reflexes in the world would still end up with a batched LoH. It’s a garbage mechanic, it’s going away and if you looked outside your bubble, you’d see people are ecstatic about that.
The game feels so much better with the horrible batching gone. I was able to cancel a spell more than 2/3rds of the way into a cast on the PTR. Imagine actually allowing for skillful reflex based gameplay as a healer! No more heals that don’t cast, no more mages dying because batching doesn’t reflect their actual health pool in time. No more!
For sure, if bad/clueless melee in your raid are giving the boss parry haste because they are stupid enough to attack from the front.
But even in the example you gave of the tank taking several hits within 3 seconds, what were you doing within that 3 second window? You were being conservative/greedy with your CDs and saving them for the next attempt, rather than anticipating the possibility that your tank is currently in a range where they could get quickly blown up.
I’ll repeat it again and again: WoW is not a fast twitch action game, it is rather a turn based strategy game with very quick turns. It is your responsibility to look several turns ahead.
My guild doesn’t have tanks dying randomly when batched heals would have saved them, because we have healers who are capable of looking ahead and they execute with the same consistency each week.
This will be uncomfortable for you to acknowledge, but your problems are of the L2P variety.
Vanilla WoW is not a “skillful reflex based” game, it’s a skillful strategy game where the skill comes from reading and understanding the situation to stay out in front of it.
This is a game which, from the macro down to the micro, is about preparation and anticipation rather than reaction.
Do you seriously think that a 10ms Vanish window is at all reasonable, or at all comparable to the way that Vanilla was? If so, that is a complete delusion.
Adding artificial lag does not make for a skillful strategy game. I’ll happily take a game that plays responsively over one where you’ve developed stupid meta techniques around a clunky, laggy, unresponsive piece of trash that eats your inputs. Sorry if you lose a few PvP gimmicks.
Batching is NOT artificial lag, it’s a system which resolves spells in turns and allows for interesting, novel, and useful interactions when spells are resolved on the same turn.
Lag is slowness in communication between the client and server. Batching has to deal with how the server processes events once they have already been received.
Your selfishness is evident in wanting to make a radical change a 16 years old game, screwing over everybody who put in the painstaking work and practice to learn how to not only play around batching but even benefit from it, because you are too lazy and/or unskilled at recognizing game situations in order to do the same.
Like I said previously, this is comparable to removing wave dashing from smash, removing bhopping from counterstrike, or even removing skiing from tribes. Going forward with this route is a tremendous mistake that completely upsets the balance of classes and the developed strategies of playing them.
This video shows how essential batching was to gameplay even in the Cataclysm era:
https://youtu.be/CJhu-n0UXyc?t=18
In the match that comes down to Rogue vs. Feral druid 1vs1, starting around 18 seconds, there are several examples where batching not only affected the outcome but was deliberately used by the players.
At 22 seconds we see the Rogue getting hit with Faerie Fire on the tomb due to a combination of positional leeway and batching (being in LoS when the spell is cast, and out of LoS when the batch resolves)
At this point rather than restealthing, the Rogue must mount up and try to limit the value gained from the feral druid restealth.
At 37 seconds while mounted he jumps the feral charge, so that the spell is cast while he is in one position, and it resolves on the batch while he has jumped to another position out of range, preventing him from simply dying to a feral opener which he can’t withstand at this point.
At 1:09 after kiting for some time he Shadowsteps the next feral charge, effectively swapping their positions instead of allowing the druid to connect on him. This is once again only possible because these spells are resolved on the same batch.
None of these are examples of skillful reflex based gameplay, as much as they are examples of deep game knowledge, understanding, and prediction. These plays are only possible because the players making them saw how the situation unfold in advance and was mentally prepared to deal with it. This is pure anticipation, not mere twitch reaction.
Reducing the batch window by a factor of 40x fundamentally changes the balance of classes and changes the well established strategies that have been developed for playing these classes over the course of 16 years.
Thanks for pointing out we wont have to go out of the way to make a spell work as intended because of a rough recreation of the original batch window.
BTW you can still vanish things.
Leeway is still a thing. You shouldnt have a delay that allows you to hit a mob out of range because you walked closer during the oversized batch window.
Also just to reinterate. You can still vanish things. The spell works fundamentally different than most.
Hopefully they get the batch window right because batching isnt all bad imo. These “points” of yours are really dumb though sorry =/.
The batch window we have right now is a recreation and the leeway ranges we have seen also is a rough recreation. It already has been changed. Get with the times.
It seems true based on my knowledge of how the modern classic server is built from a fork of the retail server, that the implementation we have currently is not 100% faithful to the original vanilla servers.
But that does not mean that a radical, drastic change from a 400ms batch window, to all spells on a 10ms batch window, is even a solution or improvement at all to this situation.
In most private servers you see that have tried to recreate original expansions, a compromise closer to 250ms has been settled upon which inmproves the responsiveness of the game while making interactions and plays based upon spell batching still possible and desirable to pull off.
Ultimately, only Blizzard has played an original 1.12 client+server since that was the live game, (private servers allow you to connect with a 1.12 client to a 3.x wotlk server that was hacked to use a vanilla database, since the original 1.12 server source was never leaked outside of Blizzard but Blizzard said they did find the source code internally and use it as a reference in classic development)
So only Blizzard has the capabilities to test and measure what was the actual behavior of the true 1.12 client+server. Originally based on that research they settled on 400ms. This is key, as it informs us this was Blizzard’s best first attempt to get close to original behavior.
Currently, making the change from 400ms to 10ms is not indicative of deeply studying the original vanilla server and settling on a closer approximation of the original batching behavior; rather this change is so drastic that it signals a kneejerk reaction based on the cries of an ignorant mob that in most cases as evidenced in this thread doesn’t even have a clear understanding of what batching is.
The commitment I want to see from Blizzard is not to give into the mob but to carefully consider the skills and strategies and meta developed on years of players finding ways to utilize spell batching creatively, before rushing into a reckless change that signals an end to the batching meta in order to satisfy players that want a more retail-like action RPG.
I’m a Paladin, my tank CD is LoH.
Considering how many guilds are trying to poach me because my guild is dying, I really do not think this is the case. My reflexes are good, plenty of times over the last year I’ve been fast enough to use an appropriately timed LoH that would have saved people if Blizzard didn’t decide to use an archaic action processing system from 2006.
If you’re suggesting I should have had some sort of precognition to predict the tanks getting crit and parry haste blasted, that’s not how the game should work and it won’t, going forward. Even the best guilds in the world lose tanks to awful RNG sometimes.
I’m glad they are reversing their terrible decision.
The way Mindtrick keeps going on about how skilled he is for using macros to abuse batching I half expect him to make a big speech about being “The Prince of ALL Saiyans” lol
can elemental shamans still do the combo?
Greetings!
Just wanted to let you know that we’ve spawned a few helpful (if a bit hapless) Training Dummies in Durotar and Elwynn Forest to facilitate easier class testing on the 1.13.7 PTR.
Thanks!
This is a gross misrepresentation of my position, and I take your obvious smears and trolling to indicate that you aren’t capable of engaging meaningfully with the arguments I have presented.
The ONLY person bragging about their skill here is the paladin weirdly bragging that multiple guilds want to poach him.
Bringing retail server behavior to classic is a BIG MISTAKE.
The original vanilla WoW, TBC, WotLK, Cata, and MoP ALL HAD THE 400ms BATCH WINDOW
This change is a massive, risky change that completely disrupts the meta and buffs classes which are already kings.
It’s a MASSIVE buff for warriors in PvE during the execute phase, and they are already the dominant class.
It’s a MASSIVE buff for rogues in PvP because they can get consistent restealths from improved gouge, and Rogue is already top tier in PvP!
This is a massive change and 99% of the lemmings asking for it, while they may mean well, are uninformed or operating from the premise of outright misinformation, and don’t understand AT ALL the implications of bringing this retail server design into classic.
Some initial discussion of the terrible implications for class balance is discussed by Sarthe here: https://youtu.be/2V0re2EevI0
The implications are:
The game will play better. That’s it, those are the implications.
Do you think it’s fine if a Rogue can restealth for free on you in PvP every time his Gouge comes off cooldown?
Do you think it’s fine if warriors, which are already far and away the single dominant class in raids, get a double digit % buff to their throughput in execute phase?