Would you have left this guild? Paladin raid leader loots Eye of Sulfuras to himself. (Paladin responds)

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UPDATE: The guild mentioned below is not the guild listed to the right of my name beside my icon. I don’t know why our forum icons are never updated.

Would you have left this guild?

My fury warrior just hit 60, but I went out of my way to get decent gear for raiding and pvp. I’m currently ranking to 11 then 14. When I first hit 60 I was recruited by a very hardcore guild that clears MC in 33 minutes. The kind of guild that kicks you from the raid for not having more than one world buff and all consumable buffs. That guild was also Loot Council and told me that gear is prioritized to the players with better gear…so I might not get any gear for a long time. It just wasn’t for me so I left before raiding with them. Shortly after leaving another guild recruited me and appeared to be a lot more laid back. They told me that instead of loot council they do a Soft Reserve system. I thought ok this is great and will be way better!

A few days before the first raid I went onto their discord and signed up for the raid and soft reserved the 2 items I wanted.

Before raid day an officer in the guild whispered me and told me to change my Brutality Blade and Quick Strike ring soft reserves to something that he didn’t want. He specifically said “You should switch your soft reserve to Striker’s Mark since I already have that.” I explained to him that I didn’t need Striker’s Mark because I already had Satyr’s Bow and that I’ll hit cap with other items soon making the bow worthless. I then told him that other warriors already reserved “Blastershot Launcher”. He said “I don’t care, just don’t reserve what I do.” He then said “In the future we are thinking about switching to a loot council system.” I wonder why. I thought about changing my soft reserves…but I said screw it and just left them. By the way if I was a Guild Master I’d say to everyone in the guild “Soft Reserve whatever you want because that’s the system we chose for the guild. We want everyone in the guild to have fun and also get a shot at gear!” Sounds simple, right? Not for most guilds.

Raid day comes. I ask “So what about the loot no one soft reserves?” A officer replied “Anyone that can use the item can roll on it.” I replied “That sounds great!”. Little did I know that’s not exactly true.

We start killing bosses and a dagger (that no one reserved) dropped that I can use but pass on it because I saw rogues rolling. I wanted to be a good guild member and not piss anyone off so I pass. Then the 2 handed sword Obsidian Edged Blade drops and people start freaking out. The raid leader says in discord “No one soft reserved this item so everyone can roll on it.” I wait patiently to see if anyone rolls…every single warrior, paladin, and even hunter in the raid rolls…and then he says “Does anyone else want to roll?”…I then roll a 92. I hear “Congratulations Kaine you won the sword.” Then I hear “Oh wait a minute…is Kaine a Fury warrior?” I replied “Yes”. He then says “Well we need to give that weapon to one of our Arms PvE Warriors.” He then gives the weapon to another warrior at the bottom of the dps meter and says “Ok guys lets keep moving.” After that I thought to myself…ok why am I even going fury then if Arms warriors are getting the 2 handed weapons that everyone wants for PvP? It’s like I’m going fury to help the guild and getting screwed over in the process because the 2 handed weapons I want for PvP go to the guys at the bottom of the damage meter that are leeching off of everyone else.

We finally reach Ragnaros and kill him. I start hearing screaming in Discord. I’m not going to use real names here so I’ll just put __________ where a name should be. I hear someone in discord say “Hey guys Ragnaros just dropped the Eye of Sulfuras. I think that our guild members that PvP the most should be able to roll on it.” I’m thinking well when these guys see my hundreds of thousands of honor and exalted status I’ll at least get to roll for it since they know I’m ranking. Then I hear an officer that is not a warrior say “You know what though…screw that man…________ you deserve this more than anyone and Sulfuron would look sick on your Paladin you should just loot it to yourself.” I then hear another none Warrior chime in and say “Yea _________ you should take the Eye of Sulfuras for leading the raid.” Almost as if the raid leader whispered them to say that. I’m sitting there thinking…ok why would we give a legendary mace to a holy paladin when we have a roster of people including so called Arms PvE DPS warriors that desperately need it? A warrior then mentions how he’d use it and I kid you not the Raid leader chimes in and says “Well an Arms Warrior isn’t a real PvE DPS build anyway.” I wanted to scream “WHY DIDN’T YOU SAY THAT EARLIER WHEN OBSIDIAN DROPPED???” After he tells the Arms warriors that they aren’t real DPS the Paladin then loots the Eye of Sulfuras to himself.

After we finish the raid we go to Onyxia where we wipe 3 times because people don’t understand the fight. Aside from the tank I’m the last warrior standing every pull. The Holy Paladin that basically ninjaed the Eye of Sulfuras in front of starving warriors asks someone else to explain why the entire raid keeps getting wiped when the dragon looks at them.

I then said in guild chat “Due to officers telling me to switch my soft reserves before raids, the 2 handed sword I won going to someone that lost the roll, and a Paladin looting the Eye of Sulfuras to himself in front of starving warriors… I will no longer be in this guild. I wish you all the best of luck.”

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Thats probably the norm. Raid leads in pugs will often have HR legendaries unless explicitly stated otherwise.

You’re complaining about not getting 2H’s when you’re fury, people are trying to focus on gearing up their weakest, not get everyone their PvP gear at this point. Nightfall doesnt come out until P3 so you can’t use that as an excuse to not get OEB.

This is indeed ironic considering eye went to the holy pally. But if they’d give it to you, are you going to buy all the mats yourself? Usually they will use the guild’s mats, and giving all that away to somebody whose more likely to leave the guild is a bad idea. Guild legendaries usually go to people they trust, and youre brand new. Is it a scummy? Yeah but its also logical and foreseeable in my book.

Your officer telling you to not SR in an SR run, is a red flag for sure.

Honestly you dont need a reason to leave a guild. If its giving weird vibes or you’re getting skipped over in loot, thats more than enough ammunition to leave.

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It’s a meme weapon, it’s not like he took thunderfury for himself.

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sounds like a garbage guild, absolutely good call to leave those goons to wipe in MC and wonder why they can’t down Nef next phase

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Honestly, I’ve left guilds for less.

Players will always find new and exciting ways to disappoint you, but this is one od the oldest frustrations in the book.

While Retail does lack some of the polish and love that the older expansions had, the loot system is far and away more pleasant to work with.

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Kaine!

From Kromcrush?

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Setting oneself with the expectation of never getting a legendary weapon means never being disappointed when something like this happens.

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tl’dr

all 2h weapons are pvp weapons, officers getting legendaries is fair, Sulfuras isn’t amazing anyways.

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Hand of rag sucks anyway, who cares.

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The biggest problem with this whole story is that it didn’t go to an enhancement shaman. Never mind the fact you’re playing alliance, sulfuras is a shammy weapon =P

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Your own fault for putting yourself in that position. The moment that ‘officer’ whispered you, a simple f you and gquit was all you needed to do

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[quote=“Shieldbeard-sulfuras, post:2, topic:2050349, full:true”]
Thats probably the norm. Raid leads in pugs will often have HR legendaries unless explicitly stated otherwise.[/quote]
I feel like you’re not understanding what you’re reading.
OP wasn’t in a PUG.

They said it was an open roll for anyone who could use it and then changed the rules regarding the Eye of Sulfuras later.

I expect that OP wouldn’t be complaining if the RL hadn’t just looted the Eye to himself.

They changed the loot rules in the middle of the raid duder.
Like I said earlier OP likely wouldn’t be complaining if they were consistent with their rules.

Loot Goblins in positions of power means that there’s likely a bunch of loot goblins in the guild as a whole.

This is the answer to all guild problems.
Just leave and find a different guild.

Don’t like the loot system? Leave.
Don’t like the leadership? Leave.
They don’t run dungeons? Leave.
They try to tell you how to gear/spec? Leave.
Guild too toxic/not toxic enough? Leave.

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I think people saying a legendary weapon sucks are missing the bigger picture here.

This wasn’t a PUG. It was a guild run. I’m not complaining that I didn’t get a 2h as a fury…I’m pointing out that loot that was not soft reserved is given to random people when we are told it will be rolled for. The issue is that the rules changed after everyone rolled and the raid leader saw that I won the item…they decided to change the rules and send it to someone that not only didn’t soft reserve the weapon but didn’t even win the roll. If one of their friends won the roll do you think they’d give the weapon to someone else? When Eye of Sulfuras dropped the rules changed again…instead of everyone getting to roll on it the raid leader just took it for himself, and when a PvE Arms Warrior pointed out this happened the raid leader said “Well Arms Warriors aren’t real PvE DPS anyway.” Why didn’t he say that when Obsidian dropped for me? It’s because he wasn’t going to get that loot. How do you not see the problem here?

You say the Eye of Sulfurus should go to people they trust and not new people. I’m sure you also believe that in a SOFT RESERVE GUILD other items should go to people they trust and not new people…even though this same group of friends say gear that is not soft reserved is to be rolled on by anyone who wants it. So why would anyone new want to join a guild that only gives the good stuff to their friends after everyone rolls on it and the outcome is not what they want? Do you honestly think the guild is going to grow when they just hook up their friends with the good loot that no one reserves but other people are told they can roll for it? That sounds like the worst idea ever. You’re not going to grow your guild by doing that, nor will you make friends by doing that. You will simply piss people off.

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SR guild run plays out like that, and people wonder why I refuse to go to SR pugs.

Best advice though, leave that guild. They’ll fizzle out in AQ.

I say this genuinely, if you want a guild that respects your time, just spend a whole bunch of time joining LC guilds until you find one that works for you. It’s going to be less of an issue long term. SR almost ALWAYS devolves into people being rats with their SR’s. Or loot in general tbh.

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seems like a everyone sucks here kinda situation

guilds not honoring stated loot rules and OP sounds like a drama llama

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Here’s what I meant to say: If pugs HR legendaries, guilds would be more likely to HR legendaries. I knew it wasn’t a pug, but if pugs do it, what would expect from a guild run?

Let me break down the two scenarios into two categories: What they did wrong and What would common sense say?

I want to be clear that i’m not defending their actions. But common sense says to me “I would expect that to happen.”

Obsidian Edged Blade
What they did wrong:
They said open rolls but switched to MS>OS after the rolls came in.

Common sense says:

Weapon goes to MS arms warriors because they can do more dps with it.

This ones not that big of a deal but its still bad on them. At the end of the day, every guild right now are progression guilds. They’re gonna want to build up a solid group of raiders for BWL and beyond. If you’re building a roster for better, cleaner runs, you’d only torture yourself by letting other players get weapons and armor for PvP instead for raiding.

Eye of Sulfurus

What they did wrong:
Allowed open rolls before giving it away

Common sense says:
HR for a trusted player that can use it.

This ones more egregious in the fact it went to a H-pal instead of a ret, or arms warrior. But here’s my point. Who’s going to be farming the mats for the weapon to be made? Were the fiery and lava cores open roll as well? The sulfuron ingot? If so, I’d say you were pretty lucky.

Would your average player have the gold on hand to buy them all on the AH? Quite simply, no. A guild would normally hoard and purvey these goods as necessary from running multiple MCs. If a player they don’t know very well wins it, and they gave them the hammer to make it, there’s a risk that the player would leave the guild soon after (especially considering how poorly organized it looked). That would be thousands of gold down the drain. That raid leader is probably going to be there to stay.

You don’t know these people very well. You don’t know how long they’ve been together or how many people were okay with the decision. For all I know, their guild could have disbanded overnight because how it handled the loot. But at the same time, I’m not surprised by the end results of the mishaps. Perhaps, some other people wouldn’t be as well.

Would you be as upset as you are now if the rules were clearly stated and loot was handled correctly? Because as a guild, what they did makes sense. But they messed up.

Again, you’re justified in leaving a guild for whatever reason you see. But I’m just nitpicking that you’re being a bit overdramatic over the end results. I think the methods used to get the end results are more worrisome.

If this was the case for all items, i’d agree you. But we’re talking about a legendary which sits in a different category than normal items. If you’re talking about that officer who told you to switch your SR, I already said that was a red flag.

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You have made several mistakes, and I’m glad you’re punished for being bad, you got outplayed and outsmarted, I am listing everything you did wrong and why YOU
DESERVED what happened.

  1. Following the echo chamber of noobs and believing that crap about LC being corrupted and only favouring some of the guild, trust me I’ve been raiding all my life with LC guilds, Hell even English is my third language so I barely communicate but wanna know why I have always got my bis gear without problems ???, that’s right because every time I show up to raid I perform well and do my job without displaying what the average Billy does everyday of his miserable life.

  2. Point number 1 leads to point number 2 which was joining a guild with SR, one of the worst loot systems in the game that can be manipulated to not only grief you but also to make your loot impossible to get, might as well just pug your way and it’ll be exact same thing.

  3. You never join a guild where officers or Guild Master are playing your exact same role or class/ spec, that’s not even debatable and this leads to the next big mistake you made.

  4. Playing warrior (cause you know OP and top DPS right ??? Right??? :joy::man_shrugging:t2:)and not foreseeing that you were going to play something that everyone and their mothers would play, good luck trying to get gear when bosses only drop 2 pieces each and you will have to compete with the other 20+ warriors of your raid, 2-4 rogues, 2 hunters and the potential Officers/ Guild Master.

  5. Trying to be “Bold” and “Brave” by not following what your officers asked you to do before raid, even if they are wrong and dumb you just don’t argue with them ever and if you do just know that you should leave the guild ASAP because chances you will get loot now are close to zero.

  6. In light of point 5 you made the mistake of NOT BEING A ROGUE with your officers and Guild Master, by this I don’t mean to kiss their toes and be a yes man, but by this I mean to have the persuasion skills to make yourself look like the chill guy who is not involved in trouble, yes even when they are dumb and wrong/ performing worse than you / asking you to change your SR, basically you have to create a persona as I said where you look as an element that is chill, sensible but without suggesting you’re persuading to get loot, once you’ve done this you can move on to negotiate with them the SR items and your best chance to succeed is when an officer got one item of your SR list at least, hell you can even ruin someone else’s SR of your guild and convince your officer to ask the others to change their items to benefit you, though you should ONLY do this once the two parameters that I described earlier have accomplished : a) an officer or GM getting a strong item, b) convincing persona of the chill and sensible guy, and please when you touch this topic please do it next day or two after raid you don’t really wanna annoy them when their head is busy with Raid logistics one day before raid.

  7. Last but not least probably the most common mistake and the hardest to refrain to do is loot drama, YOU NEVER WANT TO START OR INSTIGATE IT, it’s a no no and if you have done it might as well just leave the guild because your reputation is now ruined forever and your chances for good loot are screwed,you’ll now forever be known as the kid who cries for pixels and cant keep a resolute mindset when not getting loot, and yes this even applies even when the high ranks are wrong and ninja, again BE A ROGUE, create the persona I said and as long as you do this and PERFORM WELL each raid you’ll get all the loot you want eventually.

Now that you know the secret, I’d like to finish by going back to my first statements and emphasize that your biggest mistake was joining a SR guild, just try pugging and do a SR with the pug and you’ll see is the exact same thing but without the guild name, hell I can even argue your chances to even getting more loot and the loot you wanted in a pug are way higher than in a guild with that system.

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BASED.

I am Jonlewis, the Paladin and raid leader OP is referencing.

I am dual spec Prot/Ret, not holy.

I was not loot master and did not loot the eye to myself, nor did I tell anyone to loot it to me.

I agree 100% with everything Shieldbeard has said, we made a mistake on offering people to roll on an item. Things happen, isn’t the first time, won’t be the last. I like to think in a casual guild that allows EVERYONE an opportunity to roll on 95% of items in a raid is EXTREMELY fair.

You joined the guild literally 48 hours before this raid and roll in and expect to be given a legendary weapon that costs 10k to craft. LOL.

As Shieldbeard so eloquently stated, we did make a mistake, but such things are bound to happen in a guild that is CASUAL and encourages PROSOCIAL interpersonal behavior. We are not spending endless hours organizing flow charts of who gets what gear and why ect. We are here to raid, clear content and have fun doing it.

I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy your time. Best of luck finding a community that better fits your interests.

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Always expect scrubadins to try and take everything, that’s how you know you’re dealing with a bad.

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If I joined a guild and loot was distributed in a way that was not in line their stated policies, then yes. I would leave.

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