I think Magic type is a pretty important factor when it comes to faction identity.
I mean, does the Horde want to be known for having 2nd rate mages or 1st rate warlocks? Cuz Alliance basically holds monopoly over the mage theme, so it only seems natural that the Horde should have more prominent Warlock characters.
No, because now they’d have something interesting that sets them apart and makes them stand out. If we had Felysra and Demmath, they’d be able to stand out better.
You think I’m not aware of the meta reasoning behind why it’s likely not to happen?
I’m just saying that if the Horde were to get some firepower, it should be something that is unique to them like Shamans and Warlocks.
Weren’t you on the loyalist side of the BfA Horde debacle?
You’re not wrong. With the Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei both being part of the Horde, we really do have the most advanced Arcane focused civilizations on Azeroth; save for perhaps the Draenei? Its not that we’re lacking in Arcane Specialists, or even Arcane Characters. Rommath and Thalyssra are two of current world’s most powerful arcane practitioners. Its that they’re always overshadowed by the Alliance characters.
This is a general trend amongst most Horde faction groups and reps.
Not really. I’m on the “I wish they hadn’t done this with with the Horde in general and Sylvanas in particular” side, because she was our last Vanilla WoW racial leader left standing. But I also outright refused to do any of the War of Thorns quests on any of my Horde toons and have actually barely logged any of them in since July 31, 2018, when it all went to … Shadowlands. Which is why I’m still level 117.
The High Elves and Nightborne are the most arcane-oriented races, in the lore. It’s just that the most prominent mages in the current story are human. But that doesn’t make humanity in particular, or the Alliance in general, the “Mage faction.”
The issue isn’t that the Alliance are the “Mage faction.” It’s that human mages are way overrepresented given the lore.
Yeah, but then you got their human counterparts like Khadgar and Jaina who perform feats in similar magic schools that basically subjects them to sheer irrelevance.
It’s kinda like how in the original Dragon Ball, nearly every fighter in the show was of significance and played a pretty important role in the progression of its’ overall story. Then come DBZ, and all of a sudden, a vast majority of those characters become obscure. So now the show basically works in a way that unless a characters is either an Alien or an Android, they’re basically never going to be anything more than a relic of the past and a spectator.
In WoWs case, unless a character is human or other DMC(Designated Main Character) chances are they’re going to be sidelined or subjected to the role of 2nd fiddle to their human superiors. Like how Shandris was playing Jaina’s sidekick in Nazjatar, Saurfang to Anduin during the technically 2nd SoO, and basically the entire Horde to the “Alliance characters” throughout Legion.
Horde needs a leg to stand on its’ own, and I just don’t see how having characters that have too similar of a shtick as Alliance characters is going to help give the Horde something distinct of the Alliance.
Huh, fair enough.
Forgive the assumption, I’m just not used to blood elves on here making posts that are so non-partisan and neutral as yours.
We’re not going to get that from Warlocks I’m afraid.
All making them a Horde thing will do is give Blizz just another opportunity to swing the villain bat at us when they want to. Fact of the matter remains, its Blizz being lazy, and having too much of a comfort zone writing Alliance characters and themes. Its a fundamental writing theology that Blizz is adhering to that is hurting Horde stories the most. The genuinely do seem to see the Horde as a burden to write around, when they dont need us to plot at our expense.
If Blizz wanted to make Warlock’s Heroic, they’d make an Alliance one.
If I had my way with Silvermoon at it’s introduction into the Horde we would have plenty of warlocks. The whole society would be a haven for warlocks.
In Wrath I wouldn’t have made Varimathras betray the Horde as he would have been the world’s foremost “friendly” expert on Fel magics and potentially necromancy.
With Kael’thas and Elisande dead there will never be an elf that can ever hope to approach human mages. We can pretend with our fancy elves that we are better, but we all know that the Horde is no match for the Alliance when it comes to magic.
Yeah, that’s what I said was the only obstacle that would prevent Warlocks from being portrayed as “good guys”. The current lazy writers who can’t think of imaginative solutions to portraying Warlocks or shady figures in a way that isn’t outright villainy.
Well that’s the idea, isn’t It? Discussing our displeasure at the writers consistent depiction of the Horde as either antagonists or sidekicks.
It’s my bad for thinking like this, not ur fault Fae.
I mean, instead of letting Sylvanas get empowered by the souls of the Alliance and others the Horde slaughters, why not create a council to harvest the souls and empower their causes?
I believe that the current writers are capable of writing morally gray warlocks. Warlock order hall was better written than priest, paladin, or mage in my opinion.
Ye ye ye. Blue lives don’t matter.
Blizzard can even have this new warlock organization in the Orgrimmar underground. They can call it the Cleft of Shadow Council.
True, but keep in mind that it was a completely neutral organization. Politically leaning towards neither faction and therefore could easily appeal to just about every Warlock. Like, it wasn’t anymore Ritssyn’s organization than it was Zinnin’s. Jubeka wasn’t anymore its leader than Karenthad. The problem with trying to write Warlocks on the factions is that they have to appeal to their respective side, while being able to uphold or remain in line with the virtues and rules established within their faction.
Like, if a Warlock in either faction is too wicked, they’re going to be targeted for villain batting by both their team and the enemy team, while if they’re portrayed too in line with their faction they’ll just fall flat and not in line with the fantasy of being a Warlock.
So it’s a matter of striking and maintaining that line between anti-heroism and full-on villainy. As we’ve seen with Sylvanas from Legion-BfA, the writers seem to be incapable of achieving this balance.
For the record, I’m not buying into their crap narrative, but I’m also not tolerating the disrespect I receive on here from certain posters either, and most of them coincidently appear to be Blood Elf players. Perhaps not you, Fae, or Pellex, but I’m sure you know who I’m talking about. The idiots who sit on their high horse of self-righteousness and have the gaul to tell me to switch factions for simply disagreeing with their viewpoint on what the Horde should be, and those who’d label me a “mud hut” or an advocate for “Red Alliance” for basically just wanting a morally stable faction back.
The division has less to do with the bad story (cuz the majority agrees with that assessment) and more to do with people having different views and ideals on what principals the Horde should conduct itself upon.
Some people liked the ruthless efficiency Sylvanas provided, others like me, liked being the monstrous protectors of Azeroth.
Anyways, If it’s of any solace, it wounds me to hurl blind and wild accusations at people. But such is the way that Blizzard has divided us.
They have achieved that balance though. BfA gaves us the Velfs and in the Alliance war campaign they’ve managed to contribute as much magically as the belfs and nightborne combined. We are orginally told that all Void is evil, enter Alleria and the velfs and we are told that the void is a tool that can be mastered like any other form of magic.
They arent wicked enough to be a target of scrutiny in the Alliance. They have values and tactics that are also shy away from typical Alliance antics. They were the ones throwing Horde ambassadors to be eaten by the Void. Nobody really objected. Alleria is still an Alliance hero. She is still slave to a human alter boy. She is not marked for dungeon fodder.
This is purely because any time an “edgy” race is added to the Alliance, their “edginess” is immediately sanded down and overlooked. Remember when Gilneans were supposed to be the “vicious and savage” answer to the Forsaken?
Horde Void Elves would have been immediately questioned on the horror of throwing the enemy into the Void and desecrating the sacred dead of their enemy.
Alliance races are literally unable to be portrayed as anything but heroic altruists who do everything for the good of all, but when Horde races/characters try anything shady its’ for selfish and immoral reasons that makes the faction looks bad.
And this isn’t just referring to Sylvanas(who’s a whole other discussion) but basically any Horde character or group when it comes to the faction conflict.
At the start of BfA, Horde literally sends goblins to mine and study azerite to learn how to heal the planet, no, they’re sent there to collect it so they can develop weapons to use against the Alliance. I mean, could you imagine if they were actually sent there to study azerite to learn to heal the planet?! It would be an entirely different argument.
At the start of the Twilight Highlands questline, as we’re on our way to ally with the Dragonmaws to fight the Twilight’s hammer. Instead Garrosh acts like an idiot and sends our aerial defenses to go attack the Alliance for virtually no reason at all, which comes to bite us as we are left exposed to an ambush from the Twilight dragons almost costing Garrosh and everyone on board their lives.
Horde is always being depicted as hyper-aggressive dirt bags who make irrational and stupid decisions in pursuit of short-term power gains and ego stroking. While the Alliance are the victims of the Hordes devious and foolish behavior.
At some point along the way Blizzard decided that while it was paramount that the Horde be enemies for the Alliance, the Alliance should not be an enemy to the Horde. There is something truly … bizarre about a company that is adding RW ethnicities to humans; but seems to be fixated on showing entire races in Warcraft as genetically evil from birth. Slavering monsters who cannot help themselves but seek to bathe in the blood of those chosen, perfect people on the Blue Team.
