It’s clear to anyone who pays attention to the story that Alliance is the Mage faction. There are some who claim that the Horde also has mage contenders with the Belfs and the Nightborne, but those races lack the magical character feats of the Alliance. Jaina’s existence invalidates any mage counter the Horde has.
Instead of Mages, why don’t the Horde go back to its pragmatic roots and become the fel powerhouse the Legion envisioned it to be? Historically, the greatest mortal warlocks were from the Horde. Why not create a horde friendly not-Gul’dan?
Majority of Orcs and Tauren maybe. I haven’t heard of Trolls disproving of Warlocks though.
That said, there are other races in the Horde. Belfs and Forsaken are very tolerant of Warlocks I think the fel is a good way for them to get their magical edge back.
Right now the belfs have become the paladins/MM hunters of the Horde. They’ve lost their magical ability as humans have eclipsed them. Lorthemar was just a bargain bin version of original Sylvanas. Liadrian is just a lamer Turalyon without the interracial romance. They could regain their magic cred if a new warlock character was to appear.
The Undead are in a similar situation as they were orginally the Horde mages. TBC had forsaken mages cast AOE on demons in hellfire peninsula. They’ve lost that to become the Horde’s Blight throwers. New Forsaken characters are always wanted. Now more than ever since two of the most prominent lore characters left to become loot pinatas.
The problem isn’t that the Alliance is better than the Horde at magic, the problem is that Blizzard doesn’t have any interest in building up powerful characters for the Horde unless they are being turned into villains.
No thanks, I’d prefer to not give Blizz any more chances to villain bat us. If Shamans weren’t portrayed as discount Druids, we’d be the Shaman faction. Even beyond that though, the Horde has plenty of interesting Horde variants of several classes now. The issue is, Blizz never focuses on them or writes them; and always just lets them be consume by their Alliance counterparts.
Blood Knights, Sunwalkers, and Prelates are our Paladins. They all have interesting aesthetics, beliefs, and relationships with the light that are almost never touched upon when its time to role out the Paladins.
The Tauren may have reacquired Druidcraft from Malf, but their cultural relation with Nature is fairly different. The natural environments they also live within are not huge forests, but rolling plains, stepps, and savannahs. The Troll druidism stems from the Loa, and their natural environments are Tropical, Desert, and Wetlands. However, when its Druid time … its always NE style big forests.
Priests are fun on the Horde, because there is a massive range of faiths to explore. But … none of them are explored. Cult of Forgotten Shadows; Priests of the Loa; the Earth Mother; the Sunwell; Ancestral Spirits? Its all just Blue and Gold light worship, even for the Elune Worshipping NEs it seems.
The Horde actually has about the same, if not more, Arcane Cultures and Mage Talent than the Alliance does now. But … its always the Kirin Tor all the time.
There are plenty examples of this. It also doesn’t help that Blizz seems fixated on making as many high profile Horde reps Warriors…
A very big problem that I’m sure both sides agree with.
That is a problem.[quote=“Droité-tanaris, post:7, topic:382697”]
No thanks, I’d prefer to not give Blizz any more chances to villain bat us. If Shamans weren’t portrayed as discount Druids, we’d be the Shaman faction. Even beyond that though, the Horde has plenty of interesting Horde variants of several classes now. The issue is, Blizz never focuses on them or writes them; and always just lets them be consume by their Alliance counterparts.
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I think blizzard is just too incompetent when it comes to writing faction equivalents. Instead of competing with the Alliance on class themes, wouldn’t it be easier for Blizzard to develop a new one?
Let me speak for your Shaman example. It’s completely dominated by the Tauren/Orc version. If we do get any shaman content then I can bet with confidence it will be heavier in the Horde theme. Legion order hall even answered the Grimtotem question for us.
If Blizzard gives the Horde Warlocks then any development of future Warlock lore can be given to Horde races. This not only develops the class lore, but also to racial lore because its being represented by a member of the Horde race.
Only the cows and Geyarah are Horde warrior faction leaders. Alliance has Genn, Muradin, and maybe Falstad. Trollbane too if they make Stromgarde into a city.
When it comes to warriors I would argue that the Alliance has monopolized that too. When was the last time an Alliance warrior hero lost to a Horde warrior hero?
Thrall has shown no indication that he is a Shaman anymore. He’s a big meaty orc with an axe now. Geya’rah, Baine, Eitrigg, and Mayla are also Warriors. But you are right, we also get lots of Hunters and Rogues.
The whole thrall isn’t a shaman anymore thing is stupid and ridiculous. I understand he was too powerful in cata but they’ve nerfed him to much in response and give him his hammer and armour back pls.
Only issue is the writers’ ability to portray warlocks as stoic anti-heros rather than outright chaotic villains.
I mean, heck, the reason Thrall permitted Warlocks within the modern Horde was because he saw the potential of using their dark magic for good and to have a better understanding of their enemies(The Legion) in case they ever return.
Warlocks are literally supposed to be the Hordes answer to Alliance mages. While the Alliance had powerful mages like Medivh and Khadgar, the Horde had its powerful warlocks like Gul’dan and Cho’gall.
I would love for warlocks to be the Hordes’ main magical force again. While I like Thalysra and Rommath, problem is that they’re always going to be overshadowed by their superior Alliance counterparts like Jaina. But if the Horde were to sport some serious Warlock power, they could get something unique to them as well as finally having an equal to the Alliance superheroes.
The only problem, as I said before, is if the current writers can depict a warlock character as anything less than pure evil.
Lorewise, the vast majority of Blood elf mages are superior to the vast majority of human mages. Same for the Nightborne. The magic capitals of the world are Dalaran (a half human half elf city), Silvermoon, and Suramar.
Jaina is a used up trope. Once she isnt important to the plot, I suspect Rommath will kill her off in a magic duel.
The type of magic the Horde uses doesn’t matter unfortunately. You can turn Rommath and Thalyssra into fel-fire slinging warlocks and they are still going to be relegated to the background/ overshadowed by Jaina/Khadgar because the root of the problem is Blizzard’s unwillingness to give the Horde characters any firepower.
I think arcane magic fits the blood elves and nightbourne better anyways. It isn’t monopolized by the alliance and fell magic is not monopolized by the horde.
Not surprised they keep falling back on the Kirin Tor.
A floating city of spires and libraries in the clouds, when it wasn’t shrouded behind an impenetrable shield. Lead by a council consisting of humans/high elves headed by old master/plucky prodigy. Unconcerned such petty concerns as politics and are only concerned with the mastery of the arcane and preservation of powerful artifacts.
Even if you’re 100% new to the Warcraft franchise, you can get a handle on the Kirin Tor and their place in the setting very quickly.
They, the Knights of the Silverhand, the Church of the Light, and other such institutions draw so much off of instantly recognizable fantasy material that they make a good jumping off point for stories because you don’t have to spend nearly as much time explaining unique histories, disparate views on traditions, etc.
No, it’s clear that the Alliance is the faction that has mages that the writers spend time on. Not the same thing.
Well, except when they are.
Can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but I don’t see that happening. Jaina’s a beloved WC3 legacy character and now is a racial leader. I don’t see them offing her that casually.
I wouldn’t. Tired of the idea that Horde equivalents must be darker and more sinister than the Alliance originals (looking at you, Reliquary).