…the community actually used “Beat Timer” category more often? Yes, I understand that very few players use that now, even if that’s what they want. I just think most of our drama comes from players grouping up with different goals/expectations.
What if Blizz issued a blue post announcing that M+ leaver sanctions would not apply to ‘Beat Timer’ keys. Participants would be free to abandon those keys with zero penalties as soon as they fell off pace to time. Then actively encourage players to use those categories to find like-minded players seeking the same experience.
BEAT TIMER: We are here for io score and are serious about bringing our A game. If we can’t time this one, despite our best efforts, we understand folks leaving to try another.
STANDARD: We aim to beat timer, but won’t give up the first time someone makes a mistake. We will finish the key as long as we’re close, i.e., only a few minutes over, and some in group could still benefit.
Completion: We are all-in committed. We know we’re a longshot to time on our undergeared alts or whatever, but we want the practice and/or want this key for vault. No-leaver unless we get well and truly stuck and are no longer making progress.
Again, I understand few people use that first category at the moment. I see them in queue occasionally, but not often. But imagine if we separated those first two groups! Most of the stuff we’ve argued over since Blizz announced suspensions would be non-issues. We just need players of like minds to group together instead of frustrating those who play their silly game differently.
Didn’t they kinda explain that its for regular abusers of “leave party” function. Meaning I can leave 100s of +13 keys if we wont time. Regardless if “Beat timer” or “Completion” is tagged. There’s no way people keep you hostage in this game.
I left hundreds of keys this season if timer was failed. Waste of time for 5 crests and for 0 RIO. Nothing happened. My acc is still there just like it’s supposed to be.
Gotcha. I agree that so far Blizz has only threatened enforcement for excessive leavers. If I understand you correctly, you are advocating for only having two categories, one for completion and one where people can leave if they don’t like how it’s going. Did I express your thoughts fairly?
CORRECTION: I see you included “Completion” keys as well. Sounds like your position is you should be free to leave any key when you feel like it, even if you committed to Completion when you joined.
I think that would be a good communication strategy to address the issue. Problem is, players exist. Either they don’t/can’t read, will join a beat timer group, then complain anyway when folks leave; or, you’ll get players joining who are in over their heads but are hoping the group is good enough to carry them to the end. Ultimately, I doubt it would be very effective.
I have some great M+ friends and prefer to run with them. I’ve pugged more recently because holidays and friends away and still wanting to fill my vault with 10s (got mythic shield for my prot pally and mythic sacbrood for this guy!). Overall it’s been good, with most runs going smooth and everyone being good sports. In roughly 32 +10 pugs past couple of weeks, I figure we timed 24, just missed another 6, and had 2 break up after someone left.
Yeah because I see that plenty of times peoplee just create a key without specifying which one it is. When its noted as “weekly” its usually about completion. So basically a Leech key, where people join so they can strugle with their weekly and be done with it.
You don’t see value in trying to join groups who want what you want, instead of potentially griefing groups who thought you were committing to something different? Do you not care about other’s expectations at all?
Yeah, I’d say most of my pug experiences have been decent->positive, overall. If I had to put a number to it, I’d say only 30% have been bad. But, I haven’t pugged in a year or so, so I’m not sure if the changes in TWW made things worse.
Well sure they might expect to struggle, but not necessarily looking for carry. The few times I’ve used completion, its been early in season when we didn’t think we could time a max-vault key yet, but did feel confident we could finish it. We wanted similar players who were ok with spending 2hrs if necessary for a mythic vault slot.
This is the part I am wishing we could change. I’m always looking for win-wins. I’m dreaming we could all get along if we just formed our groups around similar goals.
Not really like most of people I don’t read the tags, +12 mens pust to me 10 weekly means completion. I’m sure plenty will agree with me. So no I don’t care about carring some randoms who cant press abilities.
+12 and up Stonevault for example. 90% of keys i played disbanded after 1st wipe on trash (its a pain dungeon) why on earth would anyone want to complete it?
I agree with most of what you say here, and understand expectations are different as you move into 12s. If those are the keys you leave after they start badly, that probably explains why no one has complained about you. Probably those players felt the same.
I still think we could avoid some consternation in lower keys (10s and below) if expectations were clarified up front. And even in higher keys, some very good players occasionally want to experiment with routes, try some different pulls, and need players who will stick around for experiments. That could be clarified too.
Are you suggesting no one is really getting griefed, and the hoopla in forums is a made-up issue? Or only that it’s fine because you’re doing what you want and don’t really care? Or maybe some of both?
But maybe you would get more of the right people. You and I both know it pays to be patient when filling groups. How much better would it be if all your groups were filled with players who play your way?
To some extend yeah. Forums are a very loud minority, most of people who complain are very low RIO and when you “expose” them they just say they don’t really play, blah blah blah. Like u don’t play m+ don’t suggest random stuff. You can’t time +10 stop suggesting changes. (not only you but all people).
Maybe some of both. Even when i’m learning my MW alt in +8 I stay even if timer is off regardless of what the tag in LFG said (i never read that) I’ll leave if we wipe 3 times on certain bosses. Im not gona spend twice as much time inthere if people came to do 8s theey should know basic mechanics and how to play their spec.
I’m not the bad guy if people feel entitled to be carried, that’s why Blizzard specified they implemented the suspend sistem for griefers. Me not allowing randoms to be held hostage isnt griefing.
People being boosted in +++5 and receeiving +8 aren’t capable of doing +8. Those people expect to be carried. Same thing in +13 keys. You got your Arakara three chested? Doesnt mean you can do +12-13 so don’t expect people to baby sit you. The same applies to all difficulties.
Players already doing that in +10 weekly runs just fine.
M+ could be solved by not pugging. Get friends. Join a guild. Ignore randos. Back in the day, we had Raiding Guilds when it was the ONLY end game pillar. People joined guilds. Ran with guilds, and sometimes, two guild would team up and run together. PUGs are like playing a certain kind of roulette where either you get super lucky or you end up bricking a key and getting nothing but a repair bill.