WoTLK was a garbage expansion, many of you will quit within a month

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
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WoTLK was NOT a good expansion.

The only reason why people are hyping it up is because TBC is absolute garbage so in comparison ANYTHING would be better. TBC literally featured some of the most brain rotted mind numbing raids like Hyjal which is literally just an AFK wave simulator and most of the PvP is incredibly unbalanced with 3 classes dominating it and everyone ran PvE gear due to Blizzard having no clue how to balance anything so most classes are left out and have zero QoL leading to the dead Arena scene TBC has.

In WoTLK:

  • PvP gear is mostly all gated behind rating, the people who gain rating first will have an advantage over every other player so expect sweaty Private Server kids to be dominating this scene essentially barring the average 2 button TBC boomer from participating unless they buy a boost.
  • PvE gear will be gated behind GDKPs, original Wrath is when GDKPs were first popularized meaning almost every single spam in chat will be about GDKPs and every raid tier will be pure buyers, RMT swiping for gold and people P2W’ing their way through it.
  • Botting will become worse. Original Wrath is where most of the biggest RMT groups started, you can run private bot farms in dungeons to farm mats infinitely along with a lot of other methods that will go unnoticed/undetected as Blizzard wants the $15/month from the bots more than banning them.

The most important thing to also know is that WoTLK is when WoW first became the casual friendly game that you see today in Retail.

The raids are so braindead, far more braindead than TBC to the point where the most suboptimal specs can complete ALL the content from 10 mans to 25 mans.

The Heroic dungeons can also be completed by under leveled players in greens, this was also designed as a way to make the game more casual.

I fully expect most of the people to quit Wrath 1 month in, WoTLK is NOT what you people remember it as.

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So I gather you will not be playing it?

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I will play it for PvP only and GDKP out of the pieces from all the sweat lords who want to parse, their work and hours spent on the game is equivalent to a McDonalds salary and my time is more valuable than spending it trying to raid a 20 year old game :man_shrugging:

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You don’t say, please tell me more!

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Not really anything more to say, I already did the raid stuff on Retail. Not tryna relive my glory days in some sweaty neckbeard discord where they follow tier lists and BiS lists lmao

PvP will be fun cause I played it in Warmane, I got pretty good rating and most of those guys have been at it for years.

TBC is a trash xpac, virtually has zero interest for PServers but since Wrath is much bigger you will see way more Private Server guilds/players who will easily dominate World First/etc.

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Oh no! But what about the children?!

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Not sure what that means but it’s kind of a cringe response to what I said lol

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What a troll. Don’t feed it. Kek.

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You mean heaven for bed when The game wasn’t made for the top players and actually as you said let the game be casual Friendly which by the way.

Used to be the core playerbase I think it’s kind of funny use retail considering retail’s rates are 3 times harder than anything in TBC Or wrath or cata even.

And if you’re going to make that argument Then why did subscriptions start to drop off In cata when the raids were harder than anything in wrath And the same thing with heroics speaking from somebody that tanked heroic stone aint heroic stone corps back in the day through LFG I can tell you it brings me back nightmares to how hard that stupid 2nd boss was.

And let’s not remember why people started quitting in phase 2 of TBC I don’t know maybe because of burn out I think it’s funny you call retail easy When I’m pretty sure the only thing you’re comparing it too is leveling.

Because if you would actually look at the rates at all you would know they were 3 times harder than anything in tbc There is no raid in any of the original expansions at all original expansions at all where one person messes up the whole raid wipes retail Has theos mechanics everywhere.

So do tell how you can call retail easier when the only thing you’re comparing it to is the leveling experience and nothing more?

Because you’re sure and heck not talking about classes because every single class has a rotation unlike most things in TBC and classic are literally press different ranks of the same bloody button.

So again what exactly do you think is easier in retail than in tbc Aside from leveling ?

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wotlk will actually be good because it won’t have lfd in it this time lol

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Dude i’m so confused.

How did you go from this:

Which is valid point to this:

Idk what to even respond to.

But here i’ll tell you this:

The WoW audience is different than it was back then, people are more than happy to swipe for gold, more than happy to support bots, more than happy to GDKP and RMT for gear, more than happy to make up for lack of skill in PvP with gear, more than happy to skip every single step if it means they get to have “BiS”.

People will 100% exhibit all of these qualities in far more toxic ways in WoTLK because the casualization of the game led to these things being even more relevant than they already are.

Yeah I guess bro, idk i’m only leveling one toon not tryna level multiple toons due to no LFD/Mage boosts.

The leveling process is so boring, i’ve done it a million times on Retail and i’m not bout to do it all over again.

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Still gonna play it.

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I mean yeah, I hope you do play it man. If you find it fun then that’s all you.

Still a garbage expansion but that didn’t stop you from playing TBC so I doubt it’d stop you from WoTLK :man_shrugging:

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OK one my points this As far as the player base getting worse and wrath of the letchking it’s not the expansion that did that it was time if you really want to be technical yes the whole concept of gdkps actually did technically originate is early as vanilla by the way.

The idea of being carried through the raid or paying a Guild gold for items is nothing new they’ve always existed the difference now people have less time they’re more goal oriented so yeah.

But that doesn’t Mean that the game should be designed around the hardcore player if anything that’s what’s driving in making retail over all worse.

People don’t like a long lovely experience it’s not fun The only time I have ever had even a little bit of fun because of the variety in world warcraft leveling was Wod.

That expansion May have been a disaster at everything else but the lovely experience was the best the game has ever had.

And for the record it wasn’t wrath That made the playerbase more toxic it wasn’t easier dungeons it was the fact that we changed think about it We go back to classic and we play those dungeons and technically they’re the easiest things in the world now because we’re so much better at the game.

Back of the day they were difficult Because we were terrible Back in the day people used to struggle to hold agro classic everybody knew exactly what was best what to do it’s a solved game and that’s one of the problems with it as far as gdkps.

I want a million percent agree But the issue is blizzard isn’t going to fix it they haven’t fixed Box in 17 years or not going to start now That’s why I’m saying I personally think everything that drops off a raid should be put on the badge vendor But you can’t buy it until you kill the boss that it drops AKA lock it behind an achievement.

And everybody kind of wants to bury his or hand in defending the fact that the wow token would make the game pay to win and I acknowledge the fact that it’s already there And it’s a horrible cycle because the more people buy gold the more things get worse to even the most average player needs to buy gold something in retail doesn’t actually completely exist.

Because the amount of gold you need you get organically through questing there’s nothing that at least gold wise you can’t afford through basic farming for the most part now we’re going to talk about carries that’s a different story.

But it still begs the question What exactly makes you think that retail is easier than in tbc aside from leveling there’s nothing Even your pre rate biss is more difficult most of the time now dragonfly might change that but still.

As I said the raids are a lot harder PVP is a lot more difficult and your class rotations are a lot more difficult to learn you require more ad on to play it effectively specific to that class.

There is nothing about retail that’s easier Then tbc

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The problem with TBC is that everything can be bought which is also the problem with Retail.

It’s not so much the argument of which is easier or harder but rather which is more lucrative to exploit, in this case the Classic audience is ripe for the picking when it comes to boosting/RMT/botting.

The Retail community stands to benefit from something as toxic as WoW Token because it essentially is Blizzard’s way of holding their place in the black market gold scene, this forces all the other people selling to sell lower than them and it makes it easier for Blizzard to catch them and ban them.

This is like the cycle you mentioned where they didn’t fix or solve RMT, but rather they became the “official” way to RMT.

It was a genius marketing decision that ultimately changed the course of the WoW Community imo because if we go back to the topic of WoTLK, that was when the game started to become more casual to the point where they felt comfortable enough to release a WoW Shop and selling a mount that looked better at that time than a lot of the raid mounts in-game.

People back then were so mad that even a single mount released and they’d sacrifice in-game art for cash shop art but in the end they now have a community full of people proudly boasting about buying WoW tokens and buying boosts.

It is what it is, but with this new community of people that we have I guarantee this version of WoTLK will be RMT paradise and it will turn more people off than they already are from how awful TBCC has gotten.

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I’m sure the poster who made a topic on the TBC Classic board saying “TBC Classic is garbage”, is attempting to engage in legitimate discussion and not just trolling.

I’m sure the poster who is replying to posts in said topic within minutes, watching their notifications like a hawk (because they’ve got nothing better to do with their time) is attempting to engage in legitimate discussion and not just trolling.

I’m very sure.

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What’s there to troll about? Everything I mentioned about botting to RMT to braindead raid content all the way to the dead Arena scene can’t be made up to troll you when it’s literally just how things are.

If I wanted to troll you, i’d tell you that RMT doesn’t exist in TBCC :rofl:

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Perhaps. But it doesn’t stop them from being fun.

Technically, I’ve been playing Lich King since 2019. I’m playing Lich King right now as we speak. Classic didn’t launch in 2019, Lich King did. What I mean by that is that everything I have been doing since 2019 has been in preparation for Lich King. All Lich King is vanilla and TBC topped off with wrath. Yes, I realize there are subtle differences between each classic iteration that they can be considered each their own game. But, for me, everything that was vanilla and BC pretty much is all included in Lich King, that I can’t tell the difference between pure vanilla and Lich King. But that’s just me, so, in a way, I have been playing wrath all along.

Who are you talking to? The demographic that quit retail for good and only came back for classic?

Or the retail demo that only wants freshness at all times.

We classicers may be polarized on a few issues, but one thing we have in common is that we aren’t giving up pre-cataclysm WoW for post… ever again.

Just a mild one at most, offers up a chance to provide some viewpoints regarding how we feel about the expansions so…

I’m going to tell you all in opposition of the OP’s thoughts what I think is going to happen. That is going to require some thought so it will come shorty.

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But I think that was always going to happen as the problem because the thing is you can’t have a game like ever quest Or as some people will call it ever crack.

That was supposed to be World of Warcraft’s thing it was supposed to be for the casual player base now Grant the definition of a casual player back then and it now are 2 different things.

Wrath will always be my favorite Because of the class balance mainly honestly it was nice to see the memes back finally die which it needed to for the record In my opinion you should be able to do enough dps to raid as a retribution paladin just as much as a fury Warrior but idegress.

The problem is We’re not the same people we were back 17 years ago And honestly arguing over its wraths fault I would honestly say it happened more in cata.

Either way casual friendliness isn’t the issue the problem is people can’t stand the idea of not having a way to rub the fact that there are better than other people’s faces.

I mean I don’t know how you do a connection between wrath being casual friendly and then releasing the storm out that’s kind of odd.

But let’s be honest it’s not like all the rates were easy that’s why they had 10 and 25 heroic There’s nothing wrong with having a normal version for the casual player base no layer base now yes it got worse in cataclysm.

So again I stand by I don’t think it was the game I think it was time We just got way better at the game on top of that let’s not forget what came out during cata Weak ortas.

It was also the point where you needed add on to play your class effectively CC rat comes to mind I would honestly make an argument there’s a point where the difficulty skyrocket had weighed too much where people felt too compelled they have to play hardcore otherwise or not getting anywhere.

Which is why the casual player based effectively in World of Warcraft and classic or otherwise as kind of dying I mean I’m excited for wrath yeah but I the way I’m looking at it I have a group in a Guild but.

Considering what blizzard may do with the game and where The player bases minds are I don’t know how long will play.

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True, fun is subjective so if the casual content is your definition of fun then that’s all you but it doesn’t change the reality of what it is.

I feel like this has the potential to be a great copypasta because it’s such a meme, you can replace Lich King with Cata/MoP/WoD, they’re going to keep milking this as it’s a business and they generate great profit from die hard fans like yourself.

Classic is all Retail players.

You are actually out of touch with reality if you think the current generation of 15 - 20 year olds lining up to play an MMO that released before they were born just so they can sit in Discord with a bunch of 30 - 50 year old sweats who are trying to relive their glory days.

You’re only saying this because both Vanilla/TBC are garbage at class balance.

WoTLK still had some favorite classes that topped while other classes that were just unnecessarily annoying to play (Feral/etc.), they keep saying “Bring the player, not the class” but it’s easy to see that you aren’t going to have the same effect being a good player on a Spriest vs. a braindead TTW firemage spamming his 3 button fire bomb rotation doing 65k crits.

imo the best class balance was MoP.

Yep this is what i’m noticing as well, I think a lot of people are going into Wrath thinking it’ll be this like super fun journey that they had from the past only to realize the ones leftover and still playing are the diehard ones who will RMT/Bot/GDKP/etc. just to get any little advantage they can because ultimately they’re playing to parse and obtain BiS over actually trying to be a part of some bigger Community.