nah I think wotlk is totally alive guys… bracket 37-45+
https : // i.imgur. com /VQE5dCw.jpg
that was during “peak” NA time btw… and with servers across the region…
Wrath has a lot more in common with Cata than it does with Vanilla.
2 Likes
I deleted all my Wrath Characters when I found out that they were being forced to go to Cata. I worked so hard to level 13 characters because they don’t matter when there is no longevity in a version of a game that I adore. I think there should be dedicated servers to Classic, TBC, and Wrath. Even if its PVEs and just maybe 1 or two. I would make everyone happy, and give private server players a home.
1 Like
Wrath is the natural result of design ideas started in vanilla, Cata was when blizzard started to break from those design ideals.
1 Like
That was wotlk….
When did they decide to make content harder? Ulduar
When did they decide to introduce catchup up systems? Wotlk (entire togc is one)
When did they decide to introduce levelling speed-ups? Wotlk (heirlooms)
When did they decide to make levelling experience much more linear? Wotlk (Tbc to an extend)
When did they introduce ‘anti-social’ features (RDF)? Wotlk
When did they make the game a ilvl race instead of some random blues being OP? Wotlk (you basically just chase ilvl)
When did they start balancing specs so most specs are viable? Wotlk
When did they introduce daily quests as a main end-game content feature? Togc
When did the game introduce collection as a main content? Wotlk (achievements and mounts)
Those are pretty much all arguments I can think of a pure vanilla purists would tell you why Vanilla is amazing.
Pretty much all design choices got frown away in Wrath. Is that bad? No absolutely not, Wrath is by no means a bad expansion but people can’t say that Cata was the expansion that changed everything because Wrath was the initial milestone. Cata was just the logical next expansion that extended the design philosophies from Wrath.
3 Likes
I think the buff came early, but ultimately what you guys choose to play is up to you. and if people want to play sod instead of or alongside wotlk then that just means theyre having fun. plenty of people are still having fun in wrath
Theres so many people in Dal on my server all day, and people always spamming for ICC groups, not sure about RFD i lvled before that
And those vanilla “purists” are wrong as pretty much all those things started in vanilla.
The majority of content was quite easy in vanilla until AQ40.
It also had plenty of catch up mechanics. ZG and AQ20 introduce the smaller raid sizes and between those with the dungeon loot upgrades essentially let you skip MC and BWL.
Anti social features, bit of a misnomer, but whatever vanilla introduced CRBG’s. Which were over all massively popular just like RDF.
A handful of lower ilvl items for a few classes being good doesn’t change that vanilla was certainly an ilvl race just as much as TBC or Wrath and the bis for almost everyone/all items was always highest ilvl you could get.
Balancing specs, the class revamps in vanilla say hello, which for hybrids had a big emphasis on making their non healing specs more viable.
Vanilla had mounts, pets and toys so…
Sorry but vanilla from day one of launch always aimed to be a casual MMO RPG with content for everyone, with some optional hard content. That design persisted through wrath and Cata was when blizzard tried to change that with pretty bad results.
1 Like
Could go each point but I make it rather short: most of what you said is true, but nothing you said goes against what I said.
Objectively wotlk introduced pretty much everything I listed. Cata indeed made it stronger but those changes came in Wrath.
2 Likes
Not really because on your list the only thing introduced in Wrath was heirlooms. The only other genuinely new wrath idea was multiple sizes/difficulties for the same raid.
But that falls under the vanilla design idea of casual friendly for everyone. And of course vanilla did introduce the idea of multiple raid sizes even if they were different raids.
Cata very much being antithesis of that.
1 Like
Are you sure about that?
Lets reflect again, also this time try to put of your rose-tinted glasses.
When did they decide to make content harder? Ulduar
Last time I checked Vanilla has no hard mode.
When did they decide to introduce catchup up systems? Wotlk (entire togc is one)
While you could argue that ZG and AG20 are catchup raids, Wotlk brought so many features in addition to the fact that they gave catchup raids. The entire badge system is purely made for catchup.
When did they decide to introduce levelling speed-ups? Wotlk (heirlooms)
We agreed on that
When did they decide to make levelling experience much more linear? Wotlk (Tbc to an extend)
Last time I checked that is the main draw of classic purists that levelling is about exploring the world. When I play Wrath I just walk from one zone to the other, do my quest hubs or I just spam RDF.
When did they introduce ‘anti-social’ features (RDF)? Wotlk
Are we really going to discuss this?
When did they make the game a ilvl race instead of some random blues being OP? Wotlk (you basically just chase ilvl)
That is part of what “classic” is classic. The game is imbalanced af, some items from molten core are bis up to AQ, while some AQ items are straight up useless. It goes even as far as some pre-raid bis being so strong that you wear it in Naxxramas.
In Wrath you go from tier to tier (not that this is necessarily bad), one tier basically outvalues everything else. Blizzard even had to buff Ulduar in order for Togc not to be completely wipe Ulduar items. This is a design choice they made in Wrath, not in Cata.
When did they start balancing specs so most specs are viable? Wotlk
Each spec in Wrath is playable in either pve or pvp. Should we talk about balance druid in Vanilla? Wrath was the first expansion that they actively balanced specs to be somewhat useful, before that they were just trolling around. It is one of the main things people like about Wrath lol
When did they introduce daily quests as a main end-game content feature? Togc
Could argue that SWP started it
When did the game introduce collection as a main content? Wotlk (achievements and mounts)
Vanilla had no achievements, neither did TBC. Achievement hunting is a big content for a lot of people. The way you used mounts and toys in your bag just made it very unlikely that you would ever want to “collect” them, you had some but at some point your inventory is full lol. Never seen anyone talking about collections in TBC and Vanilla.
So what exactly makes Wrath, Classic? Wrath was a big turning point in Wow’s history when you look at it objectively. Most people don’t because they just see “muh old world gone, wow bad”
1 Like
You didn’t say hard modes, you said make content harder, vanilla content didn’t get hard until AQ40.
ZG and AQ20 were very much catch up raids and I also mentioned the upgrades to dungeon loot that happened over the course of vanilla to the point you could pretty much skip MC and BWL.
Sans RDF leveling in vanilla was pretty much the same. There were a few quests that sent you across the world, but for the most part you leveled in one zone and when you were done got the breadcrumb quest that sent you to the next.
You brought up cross server groups finders /shrug a vanilla feature. RDF just added it for dungeons.
You apparently didn’t understand the point that one or two items being good for longer doesn’t change that even in vanilla 99% of BiS gear was from current tier.
Okay I didn’t say they weren’t playable technically a class with no abilities that can’t gain exp or use items is “playable”
I said that the class revamps were pretty massive for some classes, and explicitly in the case of hybrids had a big focus on making non healing specs more viable. Once again that is a vanilla design idea nothing that started in wrath or TBC.
Okay sure Wrath introduced achievements and some people like collecting those, which do bring in some new mounts/pet/toys/titles for doing them.
That however does not change that you could collect those things in vanilla and there were very much people who did. Wrath originally also did not have the collections tab so all those things were sitting in your inventory.
Lol, I most definitely have crushed your main in a battleground. Tiny IQ thinks getting a raid spot has anything to do with why I brought that up.
it’s the end of WoW, gentlemen
Many are unsubbing & not coming back for good
probably a good thing
Wrong. I don’t don’t queue up for battlegrounds. Keep crying over bloodlust, you’ll git gud eventually
1 Like
SOD is already dead, and Cata will be dead within a month.
1 Like
I wanted to do some healing on my druid today and having to wait 15 mins for a FoS, meh, I’m good, there’s other stuff I wanna do with my time than wait for queues. No VoA groups going or ICC groups going at the time I logged in on Faerlina. Whitemane was so dead in Org today. 
I play on whitemane on this toon as a healer and have never (including today which I did the daily on) had a 15 minute que. I can’t even recall having one that long on my dps.
How dare you bring logic into this.
End of the expansion. People killed the dude they’ve been wanting to kill for 4 years now
Holidays, dead expansion.
This. Happens. Every. Single. Year / expansion.
3 Likes
SoD isnt that great. Its just new.
1 Like