It’s arguably a technical challenge and it took them longer to get it working right on the different client. We don’t know because they didn’t state why, but we absolutely do know that it was released earlier than Zul’Aman so there’s still no logical reason to delay RDF until ICC.
Except it wasn’t a technical challenge.
Retail has guild banks. The client already had the coding for it. The database of tbc patch they used had the coding for it. It was intentionally delayed.
Yes it was released earlier, but not everything in phases is following origional release as they were done in patches. Professions had items that were available at launch of origional tbc get pushed back to other phases.
Just face the fact that rdf encourages a player behavior that blizzard doesn’t want to be part of classic design. They even tried to kill boosting in the SoM servers to a degree because they don’t like the boosting gameplay being there. I hope they do something to kill boosting in wotlkc because I agree with that direction they appear to be going.
I don’t know about rdf being put in at ICC phase, but I know it should not be in at launch. And when it does get added I hope they update it to remove many of the flaws the rdf of wotlk had. I think if they are going to add a rdf system they need to make improvements before adding it, because the wotlk version had A LOT of abusable flaws.
Playing the game? Actually experiencing a dungeon? What Blizzard says they want, and what they actually do haven’t ever been exactly the same thing. I find it curious that they’ve stated they won’t release RDF in Wrath because they think it harms the community but they never outright stated they’re going to kill dungeon boosting.
RDF will not kill the old world for two reasons. One, nobody chain runs low level dungeons. It does not, never did, and never will happen. The queue times were never there. You’d sign up for the dungeons and then go about your business questing. Two, old world is already dead. Without RDF almost nobody runs old world dungeons outside of Pally/Mage boosting.
I absolutely agree with you on this, regardless of when it gets added it needs to have a lot of the flaws removed.
I leveled a druid just doing dungeons from lvl 15-85 with the rdf tool late wotlk to cata. It does happen and it is efficient if you are leveling as a tank or healer (druid was a healer). It definatly does happen even in retail. And if wotlkc launches with it, it will be used to level from 70 to 80. Part of why people level from dungeons is because doing the quests after max level is a very good gold farm. It’s also easy, removes the open world competition, and by the time you do hit max level you have good enough gear to just walk into heroics most of the time (and for tbcc it made attuning to heroics much easier).
I’m still not seeing a problem, though. It will kill the old world? Already dead. Maybe it is possible for healers and tanks to chain run old world dungeons and it might be a viable way to level from 70 to 80, but DPS characters aren’t going to have that same experience. Not without making a couple of friends.
Such defeatist argument used by 58 Boost defenders too. The game is damaged so lets add new system to make it even worse, dont try to fix. not very super bright
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DPS could take the waits. We get the them anyway as is now. My angle for lfd is with “teleport” I can still quest while I wait.
As in now unless I run my 2nd account to self boost…dungeon nights are literally gambling on travel time to the dungeon then /dancing by it pays out in pick ups.
A gamble that did not pay off well few times at mines and stock. A bad night of waits…is no xp really. Vice me staying in elf land which is some XP.
LFD with teleport gets me both. 1.5 hours for pickup? Fine. 1.5 hours of quests got me xp. More than the 0 xp /dancing the entire 1.5 hours got me.
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But that doesn’t make any sense. Without boosts if you want to level an alt you have to go out and do something; whether it’s quests or dungeons. Actually running dungeons with other live players - whether through RDF or analog grouping methods - is still much more social and in line with classic philosophy than paying blizzard cash or paying another player gold to feed you XP in a dungeon while you’re AFK.
LFD is not adding a new system. It was created in 2009, halfway through Wrath.
But you’re right that if Blizzard actually cared about the Old World they wouldn’t be selling boosts. Funny how the ‘Vanilla spirit’ doesn’t matter as soon as they can monetize it.
What amazes me is seeing people support the level boost then turn around and oppose dungeon finder. That’s just inconsistent, hypocritical nonsense.
I simply side with authenticity. Blizz didn’t sell level boosts back in Wrath, but the Dungeon Finder did exist. Therefore Wrath Classic shouldn’t have boosts and should have the dungeon finder. But boosts aren’t going anywhere, since, you know…$$$$. There’s no reason not to have dungeon finder though. It would help alleviate the horrible bots, dungeon boosts, and gdkp problems that dominate the game right now.
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when I wake up my 2nd account I have done free pickups for a hitchhiker or 2 by stockades.
but its a 63 hunter…not that high speed mage spam setup. So I tell the hitchhiker(s) this is free because I am nice. and its free because if you want this done faster you will work it lol.
You overpull beyond what my pet can growl and I can kill fast as a 63 hunter can…that is on you as well lol.
Not a speed record breaking service…but it got peoples quests done and such. so it had that for them.
Authenticity is defined by what the devs want[ed retroactively, in this case].
#nochanges is what you’re describing that you want.
I love how to us it’s “Why don’t you just keep forming groups without RDF if that’s how you like it!”, but contextual scenarios without RDF in argumentation from the same people seems to correlate with not being able to ever run a dungeon unless RDF is there to facilitate it.
Your recommendation to keep forming groups outside of RDF is either disingenuous, or you’re heavily exaggerating the difficulty of getting to see dungeon content without RDF. Pick one.
So you’re not saying that your impression of anti-Dungeon Finder is that we all think it’s the problem then? I just wanted to be sure, because that would be a very incorrect assumption to make.
Correct for some, but definitely not all, and I highly doubt even most.
Yeah, I’d generally agree with these things. What parts of these do people blame on Dungeon Finder though?
I can definitely see why many people would think of Wrath as being more in the Retail side if they played the game during Vanilla or BC. though I feel like most people would think that Old WoW includes Wrath.
I agree totally.
As for the level boosts, it’s pretty safe to say that they were ordered from much higher up within Activision Blizzard than the WoW Dev team. The actual developers of games almost never concern themselves with monetizations and streams of revenue unless they’re a small indie company and the dev team itself makes up a significant portion of the entire game company.
Activision Blizzard is a publicly traded corporation and their high up executives have a legal obligation to their shareholders to do anything in their power to maximize profits. I’d bet anything that the WoW team dislikes paid boosts. Some of them have been around since this content originally released, and I’m sure it feels awful that their company is allowing players to swipe their credit card to completely skip large portions of the very content and gameplay experience that spent years creating.
Sure it is. The idea of Classic is to authentically recreate the original experience. Being that Dungeon Finder existed for less than half of Wrath’s lifetime and only 25% of the content, it’s definitely not iconic to the Wrath experience.
It’s not an end-all definitive reason not to implement Dungeon Finder, but when you pile all of the other reasons on top, Dungeon Finder in Wrath Classic was never more than a vague “maybe”.
Dungeon Finder would mitigate some problems, but it would be much better to just remove those problems than to mitigate them. Dungeon carries can be broken with very little effort or investment. Honestly, if they just did that, I think we’d see a lot more people running around leveling and looking for dungeons.
If even half of the people spamming for dungeon carries were questing or actually running dungeons, there would be a much richer leveling environment for everyone. All that remains to be seen is whether the WoW team will address the problem directly.
There are many problems in WoW and I think it’s a bad idea to try and mitigate them by implementing more problems.
I do somewhat agree with this. I hope Dungone Finder is never implemented in any version of Classic, but I wouldn’t complain if they added it during the ICC phase to keep parity with the original release.
They gate system features behind their respective phases too. They did this with guild banks.
They use the final patch as a basis for the balance in the game because it’s the most stable. Purposely releasing the game in a broken state makes no sense.
It wasn’t a technical hurdle, they had no plans for releasing guild banks on TBC Classic’s launch.
Dungeon Finder existed for less than half of Wrath’s lifetime and about 25% of the content (probably a lot less if you included 5-man content). That patch (3.3.0) also marked one of the longest content droughts in WoW’s entire history, so Dungeon Finder would have been even less significant of a feature in Wrath if their release schedule hadn’t been problematic.
“Mounts at level 30” isn’t a “feature”, it’s a re-tuning of a previous system. The guild banks were a brand new feature that introduced new gameplay into WoW.
They added guild banks earlier in Classic, but it was still intentionally gated by phases for parity.
Are you under the impression that it’s the WoW team itself that wanted paid level boosts in the game? That level boosts represent the developer’s design philosophy, and not the publicly traded corporation they work for?
This is why I wish they were more honest. It would create a lot less confusion. Leaving Dungeon Finder out of Wrath Classic wouldn’t seem out of left field to a lot of people if they knew that the monetizations were forced in by the corporation, NOT the people who actually want people to play the game and enjoy it for what it is.
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The examples of mechanics being timed gated are much much much fewer than the examples of mechanics working as they did in the final patch.
By mechanics, are you referring to tuning and balance? Because those are very different from the implementation of entirely new systems and features.
I keep getting drug into bizarre arguments over this, but all I want to do is avoid dead time. I don’t mind socializing. I don’t mind hopping in a discord. What I do mind is standing around in town endlessly spamming that I need a tank, or healer, or 3 DPS. That’s not socializing, it’s chat graffiti.
Way back when I was in a very active guild. We had tanks and healers. I had tank and healer alts. I was friends with tanks and healers. It didn’t matter because they weren’t always around. When they weren’t we would get what we had and hop the the Q. It was a godsend.
The core issue is that spamming to keep your “Looking for more” message up on the chat pane should not be the primary method of finding a group.
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They actually aren’t and the same applies to systems and features.
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Luckily with the Looking For Group tool, you can just set your preferred dungeons and basic information about yourself and you won’t have to spam any channel. The tool is also much better for people who want to form groups than it had ever been previously.
Can you describe how something like changing the level requirements for using mounts from level 40 to level 30 is similar to implementing an entirely new system for guild banks that didn’t exist in any capacity before it? One is editing a number for an already existing feature. The other is the implementation of something wholly new.
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Gonna go back to class balance, classes saw very major changes and going with the last patch mechanics dramatically changes how they worked early on. And that is a lot more than just changing some numbers.
You didn’t answer the question. No matter how dramatic the changes in Class balance were over time, how exactly is it that you can compare tuning to implementing an entirely new feature?
Class balance was tuned over a long period of time. Its early states were unequivocally broken and had to be adjusted incrementally to achieve stable balance. The WoW team has explicitly stated that they use the final stable patch of a given expansion as a cornerstone of its Classic counterpart for Class balance. In the case of guild banks, there was no “tuning” because it literally didn’t exist before it was implemented. This is not the case with Class tuning.