It’s a compelling argument for LFD being convenient. That’s all it is.
Nobody has ever argued that LFD isnt massively convenient, that’s just the issue with it is all.
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“I don’t like other people who may otherwise struggle to find a group have an easier time getting into a dungeon and therefore making it harder for me to get into a dungeon” is how I read this.
This sounds a lot like you want to hurt the community more than help it.
You can’t compare this to real life issues like cancelling student debt or whatever you’re aiming for.
This is a game where the entire point is to prop up artificial challenges for you to overcome.
It’s Blizzards job to design these challenges, and our only job is to figure out how to overcome them.
What you do by saying “yes” everytime a convenience feature comes your way, and by screeching every time one is taken away, is show that for you all that is important is designing the game down to your level rather than…you know, doing it the way you’re supposed to and working within your constraints to overcome the challenge that was created by a game developer with a vision for how they wanted you to attempt to overcome it.
Right people have argued that is it not only convenient but to them forming groups manually does not offer a better game play experience.
Now it’s fine that some people think it does, but then they would continue to do so right even if LFD is added? If the experience is that much better.
No, because you’re dimwittedly ignoring behavioral habits of gamers and how things “work” in these types of games.
Not everyone does things purely because they spark joy. People do whatever they have to do to grind out or reach things that do spark joy. If given the option, many people would even take a free full set of BIS gear with no drawbacks if it was offered to them.
Does that mean we should offer free full sets of BIS gear to everyone because they will “enjoy the game more”? Not everything is about your enjoyment. Sometimes the integrity of the game design should take precedence.
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Sorry, I actually misspoke when saying “real evidence”. What I meant to say was something more like “sound reasoning”. The logic behind the pro-Dungeon Finder arguments is usually something along the lines of:
- It’s too difficult to form groups and run content
- It’s impossible for people on dead realms to find people to play with
- I want dungeon runs to be less of a time investment
- Dungeon runs already lack communication
- Traveling isn’t meaningful gameplay
- 3 players already get a teleport to the dungeon
- People boost to level anyway
and so on.
Every single one of these things is highly problematic and it’s easy to poke holes in the logic. Dungeon Finder is a controversial feature. Many people subjectively want and don’t want it. Therefore, rather than retrofitting the game for anecdotal experiences, we should only ask for it to be implemented if the objective arguments in favor of it outweight the objective arguments against it.
You’re partially right about that, but being that the gradient between “old WoW” and Retail is, in and of itself, only a partially objective thing, we’d have no choice but to take some subjective perspective into account.
There is both subjective and objective merit to certain metrics like how long it took for Activision’s influence to manifest in Blizzard’s IP, the way the subscriber count changed over time, the fact that a market for “legacy servers” grew steadily and large enough for Activision Blizzard to make a significant investment into appealing to, the way design philosphy changed over time, etc.
The presence of problems doesn’t suddenly warrant us accepting more problems into the situation. Yes, server population distribution and faction balance is generally horrendous in Classic. But that’s a separate issue that should be addressed. Yes, dungeon carries are a very common thing and they break the way the game was intended to be played, but dungeon carries should be broken.
Dungeon Finder may mitigate some problems to a degree, but only in their symptoms. It doesn’t actually fix anything.
I've talked on this before.
No I’m pointing out that what others enjoy in gaming might not be in line with what you enjoy. And more importantly pointing out that what you want actually isn’t very popular.
Which is why you are throwing a hissy fit. You actually don’t seem to care about game quality at all, mostly you just care about others not enjoying it, for reasons.
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Ahahaha, yes, the crowd was just in silent, unanimous agreement when they said they were removing LFD.
No hissy fits to be seen at all! Check the mirror, friend-o.
Okay, good for you. If you enjoy LFD you have options available to you for using it. Let me enjoy an LFD-less WOTLK, as is planned to occur, thank you.
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Well we always knew you were a hypocrite, so much for caring about that authentic experience.
But I will take enjoyment knowing that you personally don’t get a TBC Classic for eternity even if others miss out.
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The argument isn’t that manually forming groups offers too little value for people to bother. It’s that people value convenience over quality and will therefore skip the essential parts of the game’s design philosophy to reach their goals a minute sooner.
You should watch the movie Cars if you haven’t already, it illustrates this point quite well.
That’s because you’re projecting. No one is saying they want for people to struggle to have a good time. If that’s genuinely how you look at this, then the point of this conversation has flewn out of the atmosphere over your head.
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I’m fine with LFD implemented when ICC releases, if you want to go there.
No you aren’t you’ll whine about it then.
And also not consistent with blizzard’s implementation of classic to date.
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The game is being retrofitted based on anecdotal experiences. That’s what eliminating the lfd is. Your claims about the damage lfd did to the game is not objective, it’s anecdotal. Your personal experiences, your subjective likes and dislikes. Your arguments are just as easy to poke holes into.
There is absolutely no objective point in time that defines retail. It’s all totally a subjective opinion and it differs from person to person. You’re just so attached to your personal likes and dislikes that you think they objectively define retail.
Except this is a video game we play for fun, fun is subjective. What you consider fun, forming groups manually, others don’t care about or consider a nuisance.
So no it’s not just about efficiency, it’s that many people simply don’t see forming groups manually for dungeons as adding any value to their for fun video game.
Maybe if dungeons were actually more meaningful? But noone wants to discuss that…
I literally would not whine if they simply decided to have it in the game at launch.
I didn’t care at all about LFD before they axed it.
However since we’re all putting our opinions on the table, I think it was a crappy feature that never should have been implemented.
Unfortunately for you there’s no contradiction. I would have no issue with it being in the game for the sake of “how things were” precisely, but if you ask me how I feel about the feature? Imma tell you.
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Sure you would.
Right because this, you don’t care about authenticity despite all your claims, you just dislike popular features because others like them.
WOTLK is a different context than Vanilla and TBC.
As others have explained, it is when the playerbase began to blur between those who like things “the old way” and those who like “the new way”.
WOTLK is unique from Vanilla and TBC in this very noteworthy regard, meaning my perspective on what is “acceptable” or good or beneficial for it is different from TBC.
Something you’ve always struggled with, Ziryus, the dreaded “nuance”.
Oo… is someone angry they got called out on not having any actual reasons why a feature is bad, again?
And now you can’t even fall back on authenticity. It must really suck having your only legitimate argument(which you didn’t even really believe in) be invalid in wrath.
You realize this is a bad argument right? “Authenticity” has never meant #nochanges. After the countless times explaining to you about how there were #somechanges that worked and still kept things authentic.
If no LFD is in their vision, then it is authentic.
Authenticity isn’t harmed.
You’re just mad that twice now, Blizzard has shown you that you do not speak for them or what they wish for Classic.
…and yes, authenticity is fluid to whatever Blizzard deems to be so. That’s their right as the developers of their own game.
You, however, do not decide what is authentic, and thus, relinquish all right to use it as any sort of argument club.
It’s not. For you and some others it’s the point. For many, especially on pvp servers, it’s when flying was added. For others it’s when the talents were changed. The line between the old way and the new way is personal to each person. You just think your personal likes and dislikes define the line.