Citation needed.
I want to see some definitive proof to back up this rather tired argument.
It’s funny how you explain how M+ uses it’s difficulty modifier to increase the challenge, but in the same breath hand wave it as if it is illegitimate.
Honestly, all I’m seeing is more personal opinion rather than cold hard facts that solo content cannot be scaled.
Dude if you make 1 person 5 man and 20 man the exact same difficulty for each individual player 20 man will always be harder than 5 which will always be harder than 1 man. This is simple logic you are adding more points of failure. It is quite literally impossible to make single player content as hard as 20 man content assuming you are making each player have the same amount of difficulty. Yes LFR Skit is much easier than 5 mask vision but they aren’t intended to be the same level of difficulty.
Also I don’t handwave M+ I literally said the only reason it becomes harder is it scales if raids scaled they would always stay harder.
You can make it as hard as you want, but solo content will inherently be easier for a skilled player than 5 man content, which will inherently be easier than 10-30 man content, because having to cooperate and coordinate with other players to be successful is harder than only your own actions and performance mattering.
If Group content isn’t more rewarding, then there’s very little reason to go through the hassle of trying to get a bunch of people on the same page to do a thing. “Because it’s fun” is great, but not good enough for game design. It needs to be worth it as well, because “having fun” can be done in any form of content.
They do and are. The rewards just aren’t equal because all methods of play are not equal. That’s entirely reasonable.
I never said Raid or Die. For example, I think Mythic+ is a great system. I think it’s broken because it has no lockout or other system in place to limit how endlessly rewarding it is, but the core system is good. It keeps 5 man content relevant in a way that rewards pushing yourself to participate in harder content (as opposed to spamming Heroics for currency ala Cata).
Having a bis list didn’t mean you’d get it before the next raid rolled around. It’s just another thing for people to obsess over.
“Dude”. Citation needed.
Let’s see an example in game to prove this because we can be at this all day just giving each other’s personal opinions.
Until we do that all we can do is agree to disagree.
You want my personal opinion? I think this all boils down to some people snowflaking hard worried that they won’t feel as special anymore with no one to show their sweet gear off to. Can’t be a have without the have-nots, right?
Hyperbole? You betcha!, but my personal opinions are no less valid until we definitively test this theory that “solo content couldn’t possibly be scaled for challenge”.
The only thing I enjoyed in wod was brf and hfc.
Legion was pretty bad other than nighthold and maybe emerald nightmare the rest were pretty garbage in my opinion, the only redeeming thing to legion was the introduciton of m+, it was actually fun to play your class after they fixed legendaries and the artifact. But that was really it for me, I wouldn’t even compare that to bfa, bfa dungeons are horrible garbage.
As far as the non stop farming of maw of souls if it’s doable people will always go for it that’s why a very small % of people kept going after the increase to the ap of you artifact took like a thousand dungeons to reach. They mainly did that so you would be deterred from doing it yet some still did lol.
They came to the conclusion infinitely farmable progressiong like the neck or artifact isn’t fun to do. This is why when I got back I only ever did emissaries, the catch up mechanic got me from like 65 on my neck when I left from a couple kills of mythic bod to lvl 90+ on my neck in like 2-3weeks/resets.
Had too many spelling corrections in that one, that’s my queue to go to sleep after being up for like 36 hrs, night/morning/afternoon.
This is just straight up opinion because conversely I could also argue that group content will always be easier because you have allies along with you that can pick up the slack should you mess up, meaning the pressure is not as intense and you have some room for failure that a lone player simply isn’t afforded.
Solo challenge means- you do things right the first time flawlessly or you fail.
This is the same argument used against m+ saying that large scale raids would die in favor of smaller group content which proved false.
No they aren’t, not in the same way that raids and small group content is. Hence the reason for my posts in the first place.
I never said you did, it’s an old MMO meme I used for emphasis.
WoD dropped off long before the flying fiasco. Because it was an empty expansion.
You can’t show an example in game because the only current infinitely scaling content is 5 man lol. We are talking about a hypothetical situation when you are add more points of failure stuff becomes harder if the same level of personal responsibility is kept even.
It didn’t though the massive sub loss came after blizz said no flying ever again.
The dungeons in wod were really good. I don’t get why people started to think you need something to do every minute of the day in wow and I honestly miss when I could just raid log outside of occasionally doing challenge modes.
Dec 2014 WoD had 10 million subs, March 2015 It was down almost 3 million subs to 7.1, no flying ever wasn’t announced until may. At that point wod only proceeded to drop another 2.5 million subs, which can’t be 100% attributed to flying.
Then the stopped posting subs.
No one can say that wow lost subs 100% because of any reason. Plus, they backtracked on flying extremely quickly.
Which is my point. lol. (Seriously, what’s so funny?).
Pretty easy to sit back and claim something to be true when there is no means of testing the theory, yes?
This is could be an example of arguing in bad faith.
Yes we are and I challenged it.
And because we have no means of testing this one way or another we cannot assert that any opinion is correct or incorrect until it is tested.
So, to that end, let’s put in some rewarding solo content as a test and see what happens.
It can always be removed later if I’m wrong. So what’s the big worry?
I feel like this situation can be clarified a bit more.
As group size decreases, personal responsibility increases.
As group size increases, personal responsibility decreases.
But also…
As group size decreases, coordination requirements do too.
As group size increases, so to do coordination requirements.
If only looking at the first, then, yes, it could go either way. If you’re a weaker player, group content might be “easier” because others can make up for your mistakes to some extent. If you’re a stronger player, solo content will be easier because others can’t mess things up or slow things down for you.
But that 2nd thing comes in and that’s why I believe solo content legitimately does not deserve the same rewards as what would otherwise be equivalent group content. You add people, and suddenly there are mechanics designed for more people. You need to cycle interrupts, watch positioning in regard to other players, choose your dispels as a healer, assign targets for different players, and that sort of stuff that would be present in 5 man dungeon content. And it gets more in-depth for raid content.
Solo content literally cannot have such things.
My point still stands, lol. Difficulty should be commensurate with rewards, just like it is in the majority of old school RPGs.
Just as long as it isn’t ffx level of annoyance haha, some of the worst ultimate weapons to get in ANY game.
Agreed. Not annoyance level. No one enjoys that type of game.
Okay, some people probably do, but I’d rather have fun than be annoyed 
Okay let’s use a simple example.
To beat a boss you must press 123 10 times in succession as a solo player each keypress can’t be more than two seconds apart. Still fairly easy obviously. Now in 5 man version of same fight 5 people have to do this again easy but more points of failure. In a 20 man 20 people have to do this. Again same level of personal responsibility but many more points of failure.
You literally cannot make a fight more difficult for one person than twenty as long as the same level of personal responsibility is maintained. Arguing otherwise is like arguing that gravity doesn’t exist.
only 2.5 million ?
that’s more than NA has now, lol
TBF, good chance most of those subs were from china anyway lol.