i see well ill cast it on who i want when i want lol (probably one of my friends) and i say kick the person who does not like it cause you dont have to play with us in mythic+ if you dont like it.
thou i do try to pick a diffrtent person on bosses it in bosses
Youāre not going to kick people mid dungeon in a key. Thatās literally the dumbest move since that either keeps you from completing the key or it makes it last so much longer. Either way, not a good idea.
ya we would lol like anything over a 15 matters
This is the first time I have taken a look at the trees, and the choice nodes have me keeping my fingers crossed for truly customizable builds. Like, I assume for Marksmanship they are going to put Aimed Shot as the first talent in the tree, but I hope that isnāt the case. I hope itās something else and on the first choice node its Aimed Shot or Explosive Shot, and on the next choice node its Rapid Fire or Black Arrow, and so on. I suppose they could also do that for SV. Either melee SV or ranged SV. Raptor Strike/Cobra Shot, Wildfire Bomb/Explosive Shot. Pick up Black Arrow as you go.
They still get credit, just so if you didnāt know. Again, dumbest thing to do, as just deal with it til the key is done or do it before you start the key. If I was in your group and I seen you kick someone, Iād leave on the spot, especially if I was the tank and you did that to a DPS. Iād be like āYeah, nah, Iāll make sure this key gets trucked.ā
well you would not be the tank anyway =P my friend does that and my other friend is a dps.
no one is entitled to a buff from me as much as im not entitled to a buff from you.
we run for fun a key going down isnt the end of the world for us.
if you dont want to play with us you should leave so 1 your out of it and 2 we can replace you faster (not that ive had this issue) in our static.
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Priest, especially holy already feels like it has waaay to many abilities/keybinds, Iām worried Iām not going to be able to play affectively if this expands much further.
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It doesnāt matter what the theoretical reason is for PIā¦you know full well that the majority of players hate its existence. Please get rid of it and make it priest self cast only. self cast only is the fastest way without having to rebalance thingsā¦
2 Likes
Iām loving a lot of things, especially in the spec trees, Iām just worried about the general changes. Mind blast being a spell for all priests was something that was explored in the shadowlands beta, and I believe there was a lot of resistance coming from holy priests and for good reason. The way some spells are very similar and are converted for different specs does wonders against button bloat. Having both shadow mend and flash heal for example just feels strange and like an excuse to have extra choices in the tree. The same thing applies to holy priests, where mind blast feels like fluff to justify talents on the general tree. If spells were converted, like mind blast into holy fire with the general talents having similar (or understandably nerfed) effects, I think it would be a far better solution. I do understand that the power word shield talents would have a hard time fitting in the discipline tree, and they do have uses for shadow as well, but without big changes to power word shield, the expectation for holy priests to shield as well unless they want a portion of general talents to be dead options also stings a bit.
The idea of dead talents being avoidable would fix this a lot, and to be fair, most of them are. My biggest issue is the 2 mind blast talents being prerequisites for twist of fate and shadowfiend for holy priest. Clerics armaments also feels somewhat bad as a prerequisite for holy priests getting holy word life as well, but thatās minor enough to not be a real problem.
Community responses to power infusion also leads to similar issues. Ideally players that hate the spell and the drama it causes could simply not invest points into it, but it being a barrier for both mass dispel as well as leap of faith makes that not much of an option.
These are amazing, I am so happy with all three spec trees. And unpopular opinion, but I like Power Infusion as it is. But I donāt do high end gaming so I understand my opinion holds less weight.
2 Likes
The only feedback I have is that both Mind Restrain and Twilight Empowerment feel like they should be single point talents.
Other than that, they look great. Keep emā coming.
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Written by a Holy Priest main:
So, I had the chance to try out the Talent Calculator for a bit. Itās all over the place.
- Guardian Spirit should not be in the DPS section to the right. Thereās just no relation between these talents and it feels bad to waste points for more dmg just to get to an essential defensive CD. Holy lacks defensive abilities anyway.
- Same with Surge of Light and Symbol of Hope intoā¦ Burning Vehemence and other DPS heavy talents? Again, Iām just wasting points into progressing into a path I really donāt want to go, but have to to get more of healing power and utility back.
- Talents like Resonant Words and Divine Words had a strong connection to Flash Concentration, as did Trail of Light. But in a raiding environment thereās just not much gain from using Flash Heal or even Heal. Heal will be a dead spell again in Dragonflight, which brings me to my next point
- Replace Lightwell with Flash Concentration. Lightwell has never worked, not in any iteration, and itās basically been a meme spell forever. Thereās a reason it had been removed. It feels almost insulting to bring this back as an ultimate talent. Flash Concentration is something that made Holy Priest viable in SL and helped the spec with doing M+ immensely. Removing FC altogether will be a hard nerf and Holy will feel really clunky, slow and weak after that again.
My suggestion is to really cut the Holy tree into three parts with baseline spells, big cooldowns and def utility in the upper rows so everyone can get them:
- Single target/Cleave heavy healing in FC style
- AoE healing with strong enhancements to Prayer of Healing
- DPS heavy style for questing or other purposes
For the general Priest tree:
- Angelic Feather should be baseline already after all these years. Holy lacks mobility anyway and itās always been a must-have talent. Keep Body and Soul as a talent for the lower rows as an additional talent for shielding specializations, as an extra reward so to say.
- Power Infusion in the talent tree? Please donāt. It feels extremely bad to, again, make some weird talent decisions to get to a spell that will be mandatory for group activities. If you donāt want to remove it, at least transform it to a personal CD so the talent becomes a real personal choice, not something youāre pressured to take. Or keep it as baseline.
- To the left, again, I have to make some weird niche DPS choices like Clericās Armaments and Tools of the Cloth to get to some strong healing talents like Unwavering Will and Blessing of the Renewal. Thereās just no relation or synergy.
- Holy Word:Life is a horrible spell and should be reworked or thrown out completely. If you want, then put Lightwell in there instead the Holy tree. The spell really missed the mark because especially in a raiding environment players usually donāt stay under 20% HP but get focussed by other healers really quick. Before you know it the player is over 20% again and then the Priest gets punished. Thatās not really fun design.
Maybe rework it to a raid-wide utility spell that increases healing received by 30% for 8 sec. or something like that and rename it to āSymbol of Lifeā.
Sadly it doesnāt feel like someone with great knowledge and experience on Holy Priest worked on this. It feels like an afterthought and just throwing everything into a tree, just unstructured and not really thought out.
4 Likes
Joining my voice to the non PI crew.
You tried , itās ok, and people were vocal they do not want it. Please listen to the community.
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Please for the love of god, delete mind games, delete all borrowed power / legendary abilities that we keep recycling through gear every patch and just come up with some new fantasy around the classes we love so much, otherwise weāre just playing shadowlands on azeroth.
To think that covenant abilities are going to be final tier talent selections is just absolutely sickening. move on from the previous expansion and give us new abilities that show real growth and development in the game.
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Imo the priest class tree works significantly better on both healing specs compared to shadow priests, primarily because the class tree is void of all shadow utility spells.
Generally, a Shadowpriest will 100% pick up Shadowflame prism due to the DPS gain and is likely also required to go for Twins of the Sun Priestess, because it allows for the most optimal usage of Power Infusion. If Mindgames is tuned about the same as now, youād likely pick it. The standard shadow picks would therefore look something similar to the following, with only 2 points left to assign freely: https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AABsQAEQGIGARASQoJCgUBQABmAA
In comparison, the healing specs can choose various paths for damage (e.g. Shadowflame Prism or Smite casttime + Holy Nova or Mindgames), two (three) options for mana regen (Mindbender, Enlightment, or both, even Throes Pain for add-based fights), while they are not required to go for Twins of the Sun Priestess.
Remember Burning Crusade where every party had to have their own personal shaman for Bloodlust?
Yeah, maybe not such a good idea to want to go back to that.
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Going into specific Talents or Abilities that need addressing in some formā¦
Baselineā¦
Desperate Prayer: Increases maximum health by 25% for 10 sec, and instantly heals you for that amount.
- This spell should really be for Holy priestsā¦ its in the name. Yet Purify is Disc / Holy only?
Purify: Dispels harmful effects on the target, removing all Magic effects. Combines with Purify Disease if known.
- This should be a CLASS ability. Priests of all specs should be able to dispel magic depuffs from friendly targets. If not others then at the bare minimum should be able to dispel ourselves. We have very FEW defensives as a Priest class, we have no way to escape via Blink, Charge, Root, Teleport etc. We should at the VERY least be able to dispel magic debuffs that either root us (Frost Nova / Entangling Roots) as well as magic debuffs. I play a priest to SUPPORT with my utility, but the most important piece of utility is Holy / Disc only? Oh and Mass Dispel does not count because you have to cast that, meaning its a liability to try and remove a spell like Frost Nova or Entangling roots as your just begging to be interrupted and be worse off for it.
Class Treeā¦
Spectral Guise: Your shadow blurs into the darkness, leaving your true form behind. As a shadow you are stealthed, but remain in combat. Lasts 6 sec or until your true form is hit by 3 direct attacks
- Where is Spectral Guise? Why is the world is this talent NOT being considered for a Class Ability? This is an amazing skill to use and actually gives us a form of escape. Please address WHY we are not allowed this??? or just put it in please!
Mind Restrain: Mind Blast prevents a small amount of damage dealt by the enemy. Two Rank Talent.
- This talent just seems lazy and taking up space. Get rid of it, this is not an ability that should exist as a talentā¦ shouldnāt exist at all.
Current Implementation
Masochism: When you cast Shadow Mend on yourself, its damage over time effect heals you instead, and reduces all damage you take by 10%.
- Why cant we have the older version? The one where we get mana back? At least make a shadow only version and tack it on the path after Death and Maddens
Past Iteration
Masochism: When you take a damaging attack equal to or greater than 10% of your total health or damage yourself with your Shadow Word: Death, you instantly gain 10% of your total mana.
Improved Mind Blast {NNF]: Mind Blastās cooldown reduced by [3/7.5] sec. Two Rank Talent.
- This is a waste / bloat. There is little reason for Shadow to pick this up as we have ways to reset the cooldown. Disc and Holy should not need to relay on this for a short cooldown as they have many other things to do.
Power Infusion: Infuses the target with power for 20 sec, increasing haste by 25%.
- So many problems with this ability in the past. Generally Priests like to use our utility to help our team out either offensively or defensively. But when it comes to a cooldown ability thatās helpful for us to do our job more efficiently being allowable and thus āObligatedā to cast on others feels awful. Not only do we have to give it up, but we have to work for that as wellā¦ we have to manually find the person in raid frames and keybind it or clickā¦ or make a specific macro just so they can have fun with our abilityā¦ yet we are balanced AROUND having it. It messes up the entire game.
- Solution: Just give Archangel & Dark Archangel in 2 lines (Holy / Shadow) in the class tree OR put in the middle and make a choice between Archangel and Dark Archangelā¦ Done. your welcome. Let Archangel be more for healing / Mana throughput and Dark Archangel be for more Damage and maybe something else like cooldown reduction or damage mitigation or something. Priests LOVE the Angelic nature that the priests represent, all specs love the wings. Give them back.
Taming the Shadows: Shadow Mend has a 15% chance to deal no damage.
- Whyā¦ Why is this a thing? Putting points into a talent to make an ability have a chance to not be bad? More Bloat, remove this waste of space.
Leap of Faith: Pulls the spirit of a party or raid member, instantly moving them directly in front of you.
- Make a choice talent. Option to inverse the Leap of Faith and pull yourself to an ally.
Mass Dispel: Dispels magic in a 15 yard radius, removing all harmful Magic from 5 friendly targets and 1 beneficial magic effect from 5 enemy targets.
- Where is the Immunity remover? I donāt see anything like this in Disc or Holy? Does Mass dispel ignore Ice Block and Divine shield now?
Clericās Armaments: Smite deals 10% additional damage while you are shielded.
- First you make Priests punching bags where we are designed to take a beating and given not many tools to avoid it. Then you mock us by saying hey here is a shield ability that if you manage to not take any damage (cause you nerfed any damage absorption these do) then you have a boost in damage? What sort of sadistic people are making these decisions? Either Remove it or make it so we can avoid damage or buff up our absorbs. This talent is near worthless and taking up bloated space.
Clear Mind: Dispel Magic, Purify, and Mass Dispel cost 20% less mana.
- Shadow does not have Purify. So this talent is even less desirable. Give Shadow Purify and this talent is passibleā¦ if just barely. Or just remove the insane mana requirement at a baseline levelā¦ We cant even spam 2 out of 3 of these as they have cooldowns already. Stop punishing us for doing our job.
Angelās Mercy: Damage you take reduces the cooldown of Desperate Prayer, based on the amount of damage taken.
- We have a Talent named with the word āAngelā in it but we donāt have Archangel that gives us wings? I know its available as a PvP Talent, but darn it I want to use it in a PvE setting like in the past! In any caseā¦ Desperate Prayer should be a Holy side Class talent. Just bake this effect into it.
Tools of the Cloth: Holy Nova deals 10% additional damage while you are shielded.
- Again the more damage if your shielded idea just fails when everything does aoe damage or direct damage to you if your not in a group. Thus removing shield fast and making this talent worthless. Remove it, its taking up bloated space.
Shackle Undead: Shackles the target undead enemy for 50 seconds, preventing all actions and movement. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.
- This talent would not be an issue if we didnāt have so much useless bloat we have to pick to get anything of decent. Thus making this pretty low case to be picked up. Remove bloat and this can be an option. Or just make it baseline.
Twins of the Sun Priestess: Power Infusion also grants you [50/100] % of its effects when used on an ally. Two Rank Talent.
- This is just a band aid to the problem you created. Remove Power infusion outright. Give us Wing choices instead.
Charitable Soul: Casting Power Word: Shield on an ally also shields you for [5/10]% of the amount for 10 sec. Two Rank Talent.
- You made this a 2 point talent for what purpose? I get 10% of a shields value when already 1 hit removes the main targets shield? This is so worthless. Remove as its just wasted space and adding to bloat. OR make absorbs actually meaningful. But you kill that after WoD.
Mindbender: Summons a Mindbender to attack the target for 12 sec. You regenerate 0.5% of maximum mana/a fixed amount of Insanity each time the Mindbender attacks.
- This is confusingā¦ I have to pick up Shadowfiendā¦ and also this talentā¦ in order to progress and get other stuff? This should be optionalā¦ not required to progress. Or do I get both a Shadowfiend and a Mind Bender? I highly doubt that. Move this to be an option after Shadowfiend but not required for other things after the fact.
Tithe Evasion: Shadow Word: Death deals [10/20]% less damage to the caster. Two Rank Talent.
- Give us a Mana back addition to this talent when we use Shadow Word: Death. Even if its like 5% mana back is fine.
Holy Priest Baseline Abilities
Prayer of Healing: A powerful prayer that heals the target and the 4 nearest allies within 40 yards.
- How is this NOT a baseline PRIEST ability. All priests should have an on demand Group/party/raid wide heal. This has been a thing since VERY early on in wows history. The fact that Desperate Prayer is a Class ability yet this is Holy only highlights a lot of disconnect of what you think a āPriestā is at a baseline level.
3 Likes
Taking this from the previous blog:
Has this principle be thrown out for the Shadow Priest tree?
With the currently shown trees of DKs and Druids, Shadow is the only DPS spec that has to make a significant trade-off for damage to get the basic utilities like stun or defensivesā¦
DK getās all utility (cc, defensive, support) via the class tree: https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AAAwPFVSFACYRQRHQxBEBUAA3AA
Druids getās all utility via the class tree (excluding Solar Beam): https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AABOQBCQBQNAZhUFQxFRQBQABIAA
Shadowpriest? You loose up to 7 DPS talents to get your defensive (dispersion), your heal support (Vampiric Embrace), your stun (Psychic Horror), and their improvements.
How exactly are you going to balance that?
If all damage specs should deal roughly equal damage, then Shadowās damage will be tuned around having spent all talents into DPS.
If Shadow has spent all talents into DPS, it lacks core utility that all (currently known) DPS specs still get via their class tree.
Mind Bomb/Psychic Voice vs. Silence works as a talent choice in the spec tree, because it is required to advance in the tree.
Vampiric Embrace, Sanālayn, Hallucinations, Dispersion, Last Word, Psychic Horror and Intangibility to not work in the tree because they are in direct competition with DPS talents.
A clear indication that these talents donāt belong in the Shadow priest tree is looking at the number of talents in the spec trees: The average number of talents is 34.8 across druids and dks. The Shadowpriest tree has 42 talents. Thatās an additional 7 over the average. Thatās the 7 utility talents the other spec trees do not have.
4 Likes
Priest trees look horrible.
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