In before I get a thread where everyone screams NO CHANGES MEANS NO CHANGES!#@!#!@… or whatever… however today Defcamp & Melderon posted a video on this topic and I totally think it needs to be looked at by the community and the classic devs. The video is ~30min long I’ll summarize the TL;DR here. Here’s the link first however: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Udl2kRIb50
So the premise is that the world buffs (Nefarian head, ZG zandalari buff, DM tribute run + others) are basically an exploit and trivialize the raiding scene at end game. The reasoning the brothers (Defcamp & Melderon) give is basically if you get the 3 main buffs stated above you are given 30-60% damage increase and a 30% hp increase. Not only does this make it so that competitive guilds far outweigh the casual ones (who don’t get the buffs), due to the increased stats from world buffs. Not only that, it trivializes the raid content which is totally doable without the world buffs making it so that guilds can completely ignore/burn bosses and make the fights more trivial and causes guilds to progress quicker. Not only does this gimp skilled guilds that would shine above others (if there were no world buffs), it makes it so if you want to be competitive you must get these buffs otherwise you’re not going to even come close.
Additionally, the worse part imo about this is it ruins gameplay. The norm in private-servers and for a lot of guilds is to have your main get the buffs, logout until raid time (whether it be a few hours or a day… etc) so you have full duration of buff for the entire raid. Obviously not being able to play your main char because of needing to hold on to these precious buffs is ridiculous and is a negative game play impact.
Finally, I’ll mention their idea on a easy fix. Don’t remove the buffs, just make them not work/dispell the instant you walk into a 20 man or 40 man raid (I highly doubt it will matter for UBRS other than early on, but even then the only viable buffs when UBRS is relevant would be the DM buff… even that one is a later phase so… not even).
If we are #NoChanges then it’ll be stackable. I am surprised the Vanilla devs did not remove the ability to stack the buffs. However, I’d say during Vanilla the buffs were need even more than now as much of the player base was mediocre or worse at their class. That includes myself.
I am torn on it as I want Classic with as few changes as possible, but this would be a positive change imho.
Won’t lobby for changes but I’m sure that stacking these buffs in the way they are was not intended design, nor were the raids tuned around players doing it
Well, only 1 of each world buff can be on at anytime if i remember ? Which mean it won’t be available to about 99.99% of the population. So it won’t change much ?
Well as it was, they were all stackable so you could get 3+ buffs to your entire raid… It also applied to everyone in the zone (STV for zandalari buff, SW/Org for nefarian dragonslayer buff, 5 man groups for DM tribute run buffs)
I mean, the end-game content is trivialized by general player skill and the fact that the raids are re-released 15 year old mechanics.
Not to mention, this won’t be utilized by most guilds or players, only the ones who are wanting to min-max super hard. Plus, nothing about a world buff is an exploit. Nothing about it states “You have to be outdoors to utilize it”.
This isn’t really an exploit or something I think is worth the dev team considering as an issue. Utilizing private servers as your source for why something should or shouldn’t happen is non-factor because private servers inherently are unbalanced. Even “blizzlike” servers have inflated numbers to increase the “difficulty” feeling of the game.
Never considered it an exploit, but it’s more a matter of perspective.
If Blizzard chooses not to allow it I will not miss a moment of sleep over it. At this point just accept the Classic game for whatever it is and have fun because it’s Classic WoW and in a lot of ways cannot be compared to Vanilla a very similar yet different game.
You say it will only be utilized by a few, but fail to realize how loot will be handed out by some guilds. If performance plays a large part in a loot system world buffs will be a big performance boost and be sought after by even casual raiders. DM and Zan. buffs will be easier than Ony/Nef buffs due to timing with head turn-in. But yeah, I think you’re under estimating the people calling themselves casual.
People did this back in Vanilla - I remember guilds would announce when the turn in would be so that everyone interested would be sure to show up. It is not some new ‘exploit’.
Not only that, but I’m pretty sure they finally nerfed it because people were farming the old raids to do the turn ins to get the buffs for BC raids.
Okay, how does loot distribution being handled by each guild relate to the discussion of a world buff being an exploit or not? That point makes no sense.
It is very obviously not an exploit. There is no bug involved. Everything is working as intended. Therefore, it cannot be an exploit.
That said, the way they stack on private servers has not been confirmed to work in beta. There is some disagreement about whether or not they stacked in Vanilla, and it might not ever even come up.
Even if it does come up, it’s very difficult and time-consuming to get them on your whole raid, and you’ll lose them the first time you die. I don’t consider it a problem; very few guilds will manage to stack them together, and if they can, they were probably going to have no problems with the content anyway.
Well was the fact that these buffs were stackable and able to be brought into raids considered an exploit? Alsoria’s point is showing how this is a negative gameplay impact. However, if the original devs never intended players to get a 30-60% damage increase for these raids due to “exploting” the buffs by stacking and bringing them to raids. Then it’s an exploit. Just like reck bomb pallies that could solo Kazzak was an exploit, because that was “not intended” just as these wold buffs stacking to increase an entire raids stats significantly.
Are you that clueless???
The buffs then become a requirement for most raiders. Go watch the video he linked for crying out loud!!! You’re in this discussion and failed to watch the source material. Your reply makes no sense without the context you completely ignored.
You’re sourcing Private Servers as your reasoning for something being an exploit or not, whether it be confirmation it is in Classic or not?
If they were intended to be stackable, then that’s the way they are supposed to work. If they are not intended to be stackable, then it is an exploit. If players are willing to sit down, log out and wait until someone turns in a quest to get a world buff and stack them all up before raid, then let them do that? The small amount of people who are willing to run around the world to collect all the world buffs before a raid is slim. Very slim. I think we’re over-estimating the difficulty of Vanilla here.
I will also post the definition of exploit from Wikipedia: In video games , an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.
Defcamp&Melderon’s main premise to the world buffs being an exploit is they were being used in a way never intended by the designers. That is the designers never intended players to stack all the buffs, have incredible stat increases, and for them to be used to trivialize raids. If this use wasn’t intended then it is an exploit (according to the above definition)
Not every guild is going to use that loot system, and using it as evidence is ignorant at best. I suggest avoid calling other people clueless when you are the only person who fails to understand different dynamics of a situation. Sourcing the few, doesn’t change the overall.
If your guild requires you to get those buffs, then you better get those buffs. That’s like coming to a Mythic Raid without pots, or enchants, and expect to perform, then get loot handed to you for being lazy?
I get your point there Lazur. This is basically my stance: If it trivializes raiding content and it’s going to be the “meta” for people to rush these buffs before raids and it being basically a requirement for raids then I think it’s terrible for gameplay and is a hindrance to the overall experience.
If it’s only going to be applicable to the super hardcore competitive guilds then fine. But I relaly really doubt that. In the video they explained a loop to why this wouldn’t be the case. Your guild explicitly states it doesn’t care about buffs. One day two dps decide screw it imma do it. They top the meters, way above anyone else. Next week a few more want to be competitive with the DPS and want to have better chance for gear (often time guilds give best gear to best players)… and the cycle starts for our “casual” guild.
Okay - and again, they are sourcing Private Servers, not Classic WoW. We covered this before. Not to mention; this is the first and only time I’ve heard this discussion come up. I’ve never seen any of Blizzard’s Vanilla or Classic devs discussing this as being a potential issue, or it never being an unintended game mechanic.
I understand, but it really is being made to be a much larger issue, the thing is, reliable loot councils won’t factor in someone doing an absurd amount of damage one fight purely because of World Buffs.
If Blizzard comes out and says this is an unintended interaction and mechanic then it will be adjusted accordingly. If it is, then unfortunately that is the way it is.
I can’t foresee most guilds caring about that because there was a good point made before:
I can’t imagine most guilds caring that much to force you not to play your character for such an extended period of time. Only the most top-end will really care that much. Or the ones wanting to speed-run raids, etc.