đŸ„“ Worgen Lore - Ask me questions!

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I’m glad you mentioned that, I’ve been wanting to address this misconception for quite a while now.

Misconception: “Intervention of the Scythe” :crescent_moon:

What is the misconception?

The use of the Scythe of Elune is a common held misconception when it comes to worgen lore. In the Gilneas starting experience, the kaldorei claim that you must steal the scythe, so that they can use it to cure you. This never happens, and there is no cure. This is specifically stated in Curse of the Worgen.

What is the truth?

The Blood Feud
In fact, it is a lie. Belysra Starbreeze and the kaldorei in Gilneas did not want the Scythe to make a cure
 they wanted it to put Alpha Prime - the leader behind the worgen attack - back in his exile in the Emerald Dream. Meanwhile the Wolf Cult - the worgen attacking Gilneas - wished to use the Scythe to free their brothers still trapped in the dream. This was the true purpose of you stealing the Scythe of Elune. The Scythe was never used to “bring balance to the worgen mind”, or “unbind that which was not meant to be bound”.

The Ritual of Balance
Many believe that the Scythe of Elune then resulted in the “cure”, being the waters of Tal’doren. This is false, as the scenes of the starter zone are explained in further detail in Curse of the Worgen, and the ritual itself is explained in greater detail in Wolfheart. In fact, the Ritual of Balance is a series of three visions, meant to help you move on from your past. It has nothing to do with the Scythe of Elune. It is performed in the starter zone, and the Scythe is nowhere to be seen. It is performed in the Curse of the Worgen comic when the Scythe is not even in their possession. It is performed again in Wolfheart, and again the Scythe is not present.

The Ritual of Balance is not a cure, it is only helpful (Belysra, CotW 5). It is also not needed for all worgen, such as Genn, the Bloodfang, the Bloodmoon, and others that are capable of shapeshifting before the ritual (CotW 1, CotW 2). In fact, it is also shown to have a chance at being harmful. Genn Greymane reveals that the Ritual of Balance has a chance of turning worgen to the mindless state, and he himself has had to put men down who have failed the ritual (Wolfheart, Ch22).

The Cure

While the Scythe was not used to help Gilnean worgen in Cataclysm, it was used to help Kaldorei-worgen in Legion last year. When wielding the Scythe of Elune, the Balance Druid Adventurer can find four different “Feral Worgen” NPCs in Val’sharah. Using the Scythe, they can remove the worgen curse, turning them back into an elf. The elves will thank the druid, and say they no longer feel the rage, confirming that the curse has been removed from them entirely. After all, the Scythe is the origin and source of the worgen curse, and can also mean its end, in the “right” hands. This is the development the Cenarion Circle wished to find, and had finally done so.

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - this did not last long. Soon after, the Legion invasion escalated, resulting in the dark titan himself plunging his fel sword into Azeroth. The artifacts collected were all used to sap and neutralize the fel energy from the sword, ultimately corrupting each of the relics and rendering them loaded with vast amounts of fel energy. This is the last we have seen of the Scythe of Elune. It is presumably still in the care of the Cenarion Circle, but has not been used, and is likely rendered useless.

Sources

Curse of the Worgen

There is no cure - https://i.imgur.com/YpVB5go.jpg
Scythe to summon - https://i.imgur.com/ZGUSkFI.jpg
Scythe to banish - https://i.imgur.com/cfv22wm.jpg
Ceremony before the Scythe - https://i.imgur.com/QYV1YTD.jpg

Wolfheart pg 319

The worgen laughed sadly. “Trust me from experience. That might be simpler. We lost several before we were shown the correct ritual by the night elf Belysra Starbreeze. They were consumed by the curse, became beasts without hearts, without souls.” Genn looked off into his memories. “We had to put them down. The ritual is still fraught with danger. Now and then, there are those who do not survive it.” Varian was not dissuaded. “Better I die trying than to keep on like I am, Genn. I’ve lost my wife and now my son. Anduin may be gone forever and it’s because of me. . . .”

Knaak, Richard A
 World of Warcraft: Wolfheart (p. 319). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition.

Wolfheart pg 320

His brow furrowed in deep thought. “We can guide you into the ritual, but how you come through it depends much upon you. To conquer yourself— your own worst foe— requires tranquility, balance, and, last and by no means easy, ultimate mastery of your fury. Three struggles, not one.” “Three or a hundred, I’ll face what needs to be faced. Show me, Genn.” The worgen nodded. “May your ability be as great as your determination.” Genn did not lead him among the other Gilneans, but rather skirted to the south and then east. However, as they walked, several other worgen left their tasks and began following. “Why are they following?” “The ritual needs to be overseen by more than just one.”

Knaak, Richard A
 World of Warcraft: Wolfheart (p. 320). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition.

Wolfheart pg 321-322

“This is where we’ve made do since our arrival,” Genn explained. The clearing itself appeared unremarkable save for three simple wells sunk on the opposite side from where they had entered. The fact that those wells were here signified to Varian that they had some importance to what was to take place. That was verified a moment later by the sudden emergence from the woods behind the wells of three druids. At first, Varian expected Malfurion to step out as well, but only the trio— two males and a female— moved toward the wells and the worgen. He did not recognize any of them other than as night elves. They wore solemn expressions and eyed the worgen as if looking for something. “Who is it to be?” the middle one— his blue hair bound in two long braids trailing nearly to his waist and a smaller one thrusting upward from the back of his head— asked of Genn. The Gilnean ruler indicated his counterpart. “This one, Lyros Swiftwind. I give you Varian Wrynn.” The druids looked startled. Lyros muttered, “But he is no worgen.” “Yet, still he suffers as we did before attaining balance,” Genn explained. “The fury within him is no less than that of any of us, possibly even more.” “Please step forward,” the female requested. Varian obeyed. The three druids each placed a hand on the king’s shoulders, then closed their eyes. They studied the lord of Stormwind so for a moment before opening their eyes and withdrawing their hands. Lyros looked at his companions, who nodded to the monarchs. “We see it now,” he said to Varian. “Welcome, Varian Wrynn. We are honored with your presence and, as keepers of these wells, will do what we can for you . . . though I think it best that Genn Greymane be your guide for this.” “I’d prefer that,” Varian replied. “I’ll be glad to,” Genn added. The other male druid— his short, narrow beard and closer-cut hair both green— extended his palm. In it Varian saw a single long, silvery leaf that tapered at the point. “Take this. Eat it. It is a moonleaf, a symbol of both nature and the Mother Moon. It will help prepare your mind for the ritual.” Varian took it without question. He expected the leaf to be bitter, but instead it had a soft, soothing texture and proved easy to swallow once chewed. “Now you must drink from each of the wells.” With Genn beside him, Varian followed the druids to the first of the three wells. Here, the second of the two males took over once more.

Knaak, Richard A
 World of Warcraft: Wolfheart (pp. 321-322). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition.

World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

“Today our ceremony will restore balance to your people.” The Ceremony will, not the Scythe
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Preparations

“Let the Scythe unbind that which was not meant to be bound!” says Talran the Wild, during a single part in the middle of the ritual. Yet the Scythe is nowhere to be seen.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Neither_Human_Nor_Beast
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/9/99/Well_of_Tranquility_active.jpg?version=06280d778ea2ada1b8e6cd60fbfa7ef5

World of Warcraft: Legion

Scythe is used to remove the curse entirely. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Feral_Worgen_(Val%27sharah)

The Scythe is used to store fel energy
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Power_in_Our_Hands

Thankyou for the opportunity to explain this in detail Drahli! I’ll be able to add this to the list of questions, and can be referenced when the question comes up again. Do let me know if you have any other questions about worgen, and here’s your thankyou bacon in the meantime. :smiley: :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:

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Hi, I’m sure this has been asked before but I’m relatively new, and I really want that bacon :drooling_face: so here goes:

Why can’t worgens be paladin?

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Classes: Worgen Paladins :church:

The question on why worgen can or cannot be certain classes is one of controversy. But it almost always comes down to defining the class, defining the race, and asking if the two make sense together. Firstly, a worgen is not a human. Worgen are beset by animal instincts, the need to hunt, and unbridled rage. Secondly, paladins are not priests. While they do serve the Light, they do so in the thick of battle, as holy knights and steadfast guardians, and are specially trained in patience and justice.

What is a worgen?

Worgen are humans[1] or kaldorei[1] who have contracted the worgen curse, becoming one themselves; a creature balanced between man and beast. Some are able to shapeshift, resuming their prior form for a time, but all worgen - even especially Genn Greymane[6] - feel the call of the wild and hunt prey on all fours. A seething rage courses through their veins by from the same source as their instincts and lupine features; the wild god Goldrinn. It is the presence of Elune in the curse - the goddess of balance and of change - that keeps the lupine essence of the white wolf balanced with that of the man[3]. Even then, “balance” is a constant struggle[5], with rage, instinct, and humanity. Those that experience great turmoil may lose themselves to despair[9] or panic[8], falling into the Mindless State, a mental state of bestial fight-or-flight.

Cited Sources

[1] Curse of the Worgen Issue 1
[2] Curse of the Worgen Issue 2
[3] Curse of the Worgen Issue 3
[4] Curse of the Worgen Issue 4
[5] Curse of the Worgen Issue 5
[6] Wolfheart
[7] Lord of his Pack
[8] Gilneas questline
[9] Duskwood questline

What is a Paladin?

A paladin is a holy knight embodying discipline, virtue, justice, as well as compassion, patience, and goodwill. Where a worgen is a juggernaught of Goldrinn’s rage, a paladin must be a disciplined conduit of justice. Where worgen instincts demand survival at all costs, a paladin is sworn to bravery. When enraged, a worgen will use claw and fang to eliminate their prey, while a paladin is charged with controlling their emotions and defending the weak. While worgen are quick to anger and emotional, paladins must be patient, understanding, and just.

This comparison is drawn well in the novel Before the Storm, as we see the worgen Genn Greymane and the paladin Turalyon. Both serve as advisors to King Anduin Wrynn in the novel. Both are faced with various situations while they serve their king, from inspecting bodies slain by Dark Ranger arrows, to reacting to the concept of Forsaken welcomed into the Alliance, to meeting a very special forsaken and old friend. In each situation, the two characters react differently. One as a worgen, and one as a paladin. Genn reacts with rage, quick to act and seeking violence. Turalyon on the other hand, while he does grow angry, he maintains patience and composure, and even comes to see the forsaken - his former teacher - as a friend once again.

Tome of Divinity
“In all things, paladins must reflect the Light, which supplements our strength. To strive to be divine for one of our kind does not mean we strive for godhood–we strive to be good in all actions. Although called upon to smite evil in these harsh times, you must always remember that it’s aiding others that will truly set you apart from the other citizens. Compassion, patience, bravery–these things mean as much to a paladin as strength in battle.” – Tome of Divinity
Before the Storm

Turalyon had no sword and wore no armor. Yet he still loomed large and powerful in the cathedral as he straightened to his full height. If Genn had been racked by anguished fury, Turalyon, one of the first paladins of the Silver Hand, was brimming with righteous rage.

Golden, Christie. Before the Storm (World of Warcraft) (p. 211). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Worgen Paladin?

Impossible vs Improbable

When it comes to races and classes, I have long used “impossible vs improbable”. Meaning, while it may or may not be impossible for a Forsaken to be a druid, it is definitely improbable. Draenei warlocks, human shamans, goblin druids, tauren rogues, all very unlikely due to the nature and culture behind the race and the definition of the class. There may, however, be very rare particular cases, where such reach the cusp of possibility, such as the human shamans in Stranglethorn, or the goblin naturalist in the Hillsbrad Foothills.

Flaw vs Cause

Another point, however, is that “flaw does not justify cause”. Some will argue that because worgen are full of rage, they would benefit from becoming monks. Or that because worgen are undisciplined, they would benefit from becoming paladins. However, this is akin to claiming that a blind man should become an artist, or a cripple become a ballerina. True, crafts or physical therapy are hobbies worth pursuing, but it would be significantly more difficult to become an artist of renown.

Yes, a worgen could learn meditation, and could worship the august celestials, and maybe it could help a worgen find balance. But that rage will never leave, and a worgen soul will never be at peace. As Belysra Starbreeze says in Curse of the Worgen issue 5, “Your feral side will never fully be at rest”. Likewise, there is nothing stopping a worgen from following the Light, and it is in fact still one of the dominant religions among Gilnean worgen. To become a champion of the Light, however, would require patience and discipline that worgen are incapable of, thanks to the nature of worgen.

Conclusion

That said, there are exceptions to the rule. Calia and Lothraxion are one-of-a-kind exceptions, where something has defied their nature by making them into entirely new beings. There may very well be a worgen paladin in the future, but - like a demon becoming a paladin - it would require divine intervention and a change to their nature, or otherwise would be exceedingly rare.

Thankyou for the question Mevaar! The question of worgen paladins is one as old as the playable race itself, and was a topic of great debate on the old forums, all of which have since been wiped. So bacons to you for giving me the chance to revisit that topic here on the new forums. :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:

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Hello

First of all thank you very much for taking the time to write out and answer questions. Lore, as convoluted as it can be, is a really big selling point for some people so I appreciate it

I hope you can answer my question, or weigh in on it with your opinion. (Also I am sorry if I missed it and you answered it)
TLDR: Do DK Worgen still have animal instincts?

It has been said that when a Worgen was raised by the Lich King his indomitable will shattered the Worgen’s “animal side” leaving only the human side, but clearly still allowing for transformation. Once we Worgen regain our free will we can transform between Human and Worgen form freely, use running wild, and etc etc. Is it possible that when the Lich King’s influence was removed from our consciousness the Worgen’s “animal” side and instinct slowly returned? Or are we free from it’s influence? Does our DK need to inflict pain join our Worgen instinct to hunt prey in a beautiful tango, or are we just beset on all sides by confusion and needs?

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Oh wow, thanks for taking your time to write such a detailed response :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:.

I was going to question further about worgens learning the way of monks and learning how to control their rage through monk’s inner peace but

this actually explained a lot. I really should get a copy of those novels and find some time read although I’m very picky and I only read certain genres when it comes to books, but I’ll try.

spreads a lot of mayo on bacons

Here would you like to try some? Mayo goes with everything really. :mayonnaise: :mayonnaise: :mayonnaise: :bacon: :bacon:

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Thanks for asking! I have in fact answered the question on worgen instincts before, as well as some others on worgen deathknights you might find useful. Your question here about worgen deathknights and instincts was asnwered as well in CDev Answers Round three, and the quote below claims the instincts were shattered and remain so.

After being raised by the Lich King and regardless of their past life, almost all death knights embraced the honor of their new status. However, there were the rare few that were reanimated and retained emotion and memory, and in some cases, fear. These “unworthy initiates” to the dark brotherhood were then disposed of, fed “alive” to ravenous ghouls. Death knights afflicted by the worgen curse had their feral instincts shattered in favor of the Lich King’s will. This held true even after their freedom from the Lich King. – CDev Answers Round 3

  • How are worgen death knights possible? link :bacon:
  • Do worgen death knights still have instincts? link :bacon:
  • Why are worgen immune to conventional undeath? link :bacon:
  • Are worgen still immune to undeath? link :bacon:

As for your post, let me see if there is anything else I can add


Can worgen Deathknights shapeshift?

Reasons why not

Normally, I would argue that worgen deathknights cannot use human form. When worgen die, the default form they return to in the worgen body, seen in Wolfheart and the comics. Shapeshifting is a gradual physical process and a magical ability, likely drawing on the power of Elune and Goldrinn present in the curse itself. However, while we have seen both kaldorei and humans able to become worgen, we have only ever seen humans capable of shapeshifting
 which has interesting implications. If death cuts you off from Goldrinn and Elune, leaving you with the physical worgen body that is left behind in death, a reanimated worgen corpse would - in theory - not be able to shapeshift.

Reason why

Human form is only possible to worgen that are clear minded, such as cultists in the Grizzly Hills and Gilneas, and Genn Greymane. Some worgen have to take the Ritual of Balance to help them move on from traumatic memories, such as Halford Ramsey, the player character, and the human king Varian Wrynn. Since it is emotions and instincts that prevent one from being able to shapeshift, and almost all deathknights have little to no emotions, there would be little to hinder them from shapeshifting.

In any case, out of all the worgen deathknights we have seen that have never shapeshifted, we do have one that is said to be a deathknight worgen, and is seen in both forms.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Grant_Lazarby

Could bestial instincts return?

The CDev response claims what worgen deathknights have their bestial instincts shattered and replaced by the Lich King’s Will, and that this stays so afterwards. However, while community developer responses are a bit better than twitter replies, they still are not much to go on, and some use faulty logic or become outdated as the game adds more lore.

We have seen where deathknights have been specially selected and trained to be emotionless soldiers for the Scourge army, devoid of remorse, regret, compasion, and even memories of their past lives. However, those emotions can be felt again for a fleeting moments at a time, and some deathknights have managed to regain some scraps of memories of their past lives here and there, such as Thassarian. We also have some deathknights who still eat food, drink alcohol, sleep, and smile, but only as habits left over from life.

Therefore, theoretically, if your worgen was a worgen for an extended period of time before being turned into a deathknight, they may have both memories and habits left over from being a living worgen, and might have fleeting moments of anger, the need to hunt, instincts of territory or guardianship, or other bestial tendencies. But how much of it is actual emotion and instinct, or mere habit or an act to make others more comfortable, that would be difficult to tell.

Bacons to you anyways! Generally as a deathknight, you get to throw out everything you know about worgen, and rely only on what you need to know about deathknights. Which is great, actually, because being forced to research both would be a lot to ask of a player. However, if you are a deathknight and do it well, and would like to incorperate worgen elements, you can use the “fleeting memories”, “force of habit”, and “the act” reasons to add those bestial elements to their behavior. :bacon:

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This is so much more information than I could’ve ever imagined was to be found on such a small concept.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this out for me! I have so much more material to work on my RP now it’s very exciting!

I’ll gladly accept your bacon and owe you some back.
Thank you!

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Do Worgen have any different-than-normal interaction with the Nightmare? Does the ‘beast within’ give them a certain resistance to the various other types of corruption out there?

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PURITY OF ESSENCE:

A WORGEN LOOK AT WORGEN LORE

NEXT EVENT:

:wolf: The Cult and the Fall of Gilneas :crossed_swords:

Alliance! Ever wondered about our mysterious allies, the worgen? Come to the Embassy TONIGHT at 7:30PM PST to learn the truths of this ancient, bestial race. This week, learn how a Gilnean cult rose to power, and the true story behind the fall of the kingdom. A tale of hatred, betrayal, civil war, and forgiveness.

May 22nd, 7:30PM PST, STORMWIND EMBASSY

Not on WrA? Click here to add this event to your ingame calendar and be invited when it starts.

https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/E0GezwZiEg?region=US&faction=Alliance

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Do Worgen retain their strength and agility while in human form? Or are they just regular humans until they transform?

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Worgen and the Nightmare :rose:

Are worgen resistant to nightmare corruption?

In short, the worgen resistance to magic is not perfect. We are told that the Lycanthoth Vandals were Gilneans corrupted by the Twilight’s Hammer, and while that could be stated by an unreliable narrator or could simply mean manipulated, we also have the Blackhowl Pack; humans and worgen corrupted by black dragon blood. However, when it comes to worgen and Nightmare specifically, the question gets a little tricky.

Logically, one might assume our connection to Goldrinn may make worgen vulnerable, since Wild Gods can be corrupted by Nightmare, such as Ursoc and Cenarius in Legion. But we also have four “Feral Worgen” in Val’sharah that, while they are in the mindless state, they are not corrupted by the nightmare. These worgen specifically arrived in Val’sharah by traveling through the dream from where they had been banished by Malfurion 9,300 years ago, and did so without being tainted by the Nightmare. Where regular kaldorei druids are vulnerable to the nightmare when dreamwalking, these worgen slept in the dream for over nine thousand years with no side effects. We also have various hints that the Dream was indeed corrupted while the worgen were inside, including the transcript of The Book of Ur, claiming that “worgen come from a land of nightmare, in eternal war with their enemy”, which was confirmed to be Satyr in Curse of the Worgen.

However, it is also worth noting that the Nightmare has a habit of sending people crazy at the very least, and those four worgen - while they were physically fine - were indeed mindless. We also have multiple packs of feral worgen able to expertly use shadow-magic, straight after being summoned from the dream, most notably the Terrowulf and Nightbane. It is worth asking why these former druids took to exploring shadowmagic, not druidism, upon their release, and why they can do so so efficiently. The answer as to why might be the same reason the Feral Worgen were not corrupted, and why they were able to wage war with the Satyr inside the nightmare; our racial resistance to shadow/nature magic is more than just a mechanic. :bacon:

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Worgen in human form :man:

Are worgen just regular humans in human form?

That is a really good question! And I really wish there was more on it, but there is some. Are worgen in human form just regular humans? Well, yes, and no.

Spiritually, worgen are worgen. The worgen soul is worgen, seen by numerous worgen ghosts, and the worgen body returns to this form when they are slain. The resistance to undeath is retained in either form, as well as their amplified connection to nature. But so too does their magical weakness - Wolfsbane - matter in both forms, as you see the worgen in Northrend in human form require you to remove the wolfsbane plants because they cannot.

Mentally, worgen in human form aren’t entirely human in mind either. The best quote to describe this is Belysra Starbreeze, who says “Your feral side will never truly be at rest. When you are driven to anger, or concentrate with a force of will, the animal within you will come forward. There is no full cure.”. Genn Greymane is a prime example of worgen emotions, and is depicted throughout comics and novels as slightly more easy to anger than the regular human. Not only that, worgen have those instincts to hunt, which grow stronger when they take worgen form.

Now, physically, on the other hand, worgen in human form appear fully human. This perfect disguise allowed the Gilnean Wolf Cult to shapeshift and sneak inside the city to recruit more. In regards to physical strength, we do not have any instances of them doing inhuman heavylifting in human form. We do, however, have feats of agility and awareness in lore. In Curse of the Worgen Issue 1 pg 12, we see some in human form being chased on horseback, outrunning the horse and jumping through the forest, only then turning into worgen.

- https://imgur.com/dGIEHyd - Curse of the Worgen, Issue 1, pg 14

This could just be them outmaneuvering the horseman, but we have another quote supporting agility and stealth in human form.

- It was next to impossible to come upon the archdruid without his noticing, but the speaker had done just that. Fortunately, Malfurion was not one of tender nerve. He simply turned and, to no surprise, found himself gazing down slightly at a human. - Wolfheart, pg. 90
- Eadrik moved as silently as any night elf, no mean feat for a human. He said nothing as they exited the city, but Malfurion noted that he finally relaxed as they entered the forest. The archdruid found it fascinating that a human would be more relieved to be in the wilderness than in a city. - Wolfheart, pg. 91

In addition, there may be some slight enhanced senses as well, considering Genn Greymane sensing Mathias Shaw - the world renowned spy - coming up behind him in a crowd of people during the Legion epilogue cinematic. His nose seems to move ever so slightly, and he need not even look over his shoulder to know exactly who it is. To which, Mathias looks surprised.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WlY4KQqFU

To summarize, when it comes to any physical perks to a worgen’s human form, compared to a regular human, there might be a few. But even so, as lithe or aware as they may be in human form, it is also said that worgen still feel the aches of old ache in human form, but not so in worgen form.

- The hair on the back of his neck suddenly stood on end. Someone was behind him. As with many worgen, Genn more often than not remained in his lupine form. He felt stronger, younger that way. When human, the king felt the aches of age. But being worgen now meant that the one behind him had failed if his attempt had been to sneak up on Genn. Moving with the swiftness and grace of the worgen shape, he turned to meet the potential threat with claws and teeth. - Wolfheart pg. 316-317

I hope that answered your question well! Worgen do not get to do inhuman crazy stunts in human form, as you might see on MTV or other werewolf shows, but there -are- a few things characters can do in roleplay as those subtle reminders that you aren’t human. :bacon:

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Excellent information and it did help to answer my question. Thank you!

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This thread is everything! :heart: I’ve been struggling to find enough information about worgen lore to flesh out my mage’s backstory properly and this is by far the best source I’ve found. Thank you for taking the time to do this. I also have some questions regarding worgen mages specifically:

I know that mages studied in Dalaran, but at what age or proficiency level did they leave for their training? When does the apprenticeship start and would being a mage be a rarity in Gilneas? I’ve often wondered how feasible it would be for the knowledge of magic to reach into Gilneas, what with them being so closed off and seemingly suspicious of outsiders. I struggle with forming my backstory because I am always so confused as to how I can pull off being a low tier mage while also having been trapped behind the wall (essentially being isolated).

I know it must be possible because Arugal exists, but I imagine that the mages and priests of Gilneas probably did their best to fight against the curse in the beginning before Gilneas fell. Then again, how many mages could there have been in Gilneas in the first place?

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awoo
10chars

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Regarding Worgen Mages :woman_mage:

How could they have been trained?

Worgen mages can be a tricky thing. A once good friend of mine is a worgen mage, and has always found it difficult to balance the scholarly class with the savage race. I wish you luck, in that regard. There is also a shortage of worgen mage characters in lore to reference, for a variety of reasons addressed in post 20 if you haven’t seen it yet.

Why do we never see worgen mages in lore? :mage: đŸ„“ Worgen Lore - Ask me questions! - #20 by Raedolf-wyrmrest-accord

Now when it comes to backstory and training, I would surmise that you could “go off to college” at whatever age is fitting for your character’s backstory. When did their talent with magic begin to manifest? When was it realized? How important was it to your character or their parents? But then, as you mentioned, there is the wall to consider.

The wall was built at year 18, and it fell at year 28, so it was standing for about ten years. If Tillis was stuck inside the wall at that time, there are still some possibilities on how to have learned arcane magic. Archmage Arugal and Myriam Spellwalker are two Gilnean mage NPCs that were present in Gilneas, proving there was a mage presence in the country, when it quarantined itself from the rest of the world.

- “That reminds me, someone was asking about you. It was a named Myriam. She mentioned something about you being “ready.””
- “A disciple of the arcane always finds a way forward. I’m glad to see you, (name).”
- “The path ahead is difficult, (name). We must devote the entirety of our mental power to the task at hand. Yet sometimes, that is not enough. Sometimes the situation calls for raw firepower. I know just the spell for such a situation and I’ll be more than glad to share it with you. Once you’ve learned it, practice using it against the Bloodfang Worgen to our west. You’ll only get the chance to use your new spell after casting a different spell.”
- “I always knew you were a quick study!”
- “You’ve learned with such speed and ease. Soon you’ll be the one doing the teaching.”

Two good options would be to have gone to a “school for exceptional children”, as it were, or to have gone into an apprenticeship as if with a tutor. Either are perfectly possible and fit well with the victorian era Gilnean style and culture. In fact, Myriam Spellwalker speaks as if she knows you directly, either as a teacher of many students or a personal tutor, further supporting this possibility. After all, the whole point of cutting themselves off from the Alliance was pride and self-dependence; Gilneas needs no one else. Gilneas firmly believed it could feed itself, fend for itself, and prosper on its own.

- “Damn the orcs, damn the Alliance, and damn you! The last thing Gilneas needs is sponges from other nations drawing from our resources, Dalaran wizards meddling with our affairs, and someone else’s enemies killing our soldiers! Gilneas is its own nation and it always will be. This is the last time I’ll ever talk to you, Terenas, so I hope you were listening.” - Genn Greymane, (RPG, non-canon, but was inspiration towards the canon)
- “I listened to you and Crowley before, and look where it has gotten us! Dead Gilneans, torn apart by those green scoundrels, and now the Alliance, oh, this ‘Alliance’ you were so certain would be a boon to our people
 they want more and more every day. They take and take, but what do we receive in return? Where is the great reciprocity you both were so certain of?! Now they want us to send them gold for that keep
 Nethergarde
. What does that outpost have to do with Gilneas
with my people?” Genn wasn’t in the mood to be challenged. - Lord of his Pack, pg 3
- “We took the hand of the Alliance. We gave it our support, and look what it gave us. As a nation we are poorer, while it reaps the benefits of our contributions
. There were orcs
 bloody, savage beasts. You saw them, what they are capable of
. Now Terenas wants more of our gold. Perhaps more of our blood. Nay, I say!” Genn’s words were spoken with the clarity of a man who had been given a vision. - Lord of his Pack, pg 3

There is also a Gilnean tutor character in lore itself, the long-lost brother of Tobias, Stalvan Mistmantle. Originally from Silverpine forest, he taught at a school in Moonbrook, before becoming a personal tutor
 which is where his story begins.

Dear Noble Sir,
Word of your need for a tutor for your children has traveled to me here in Goldshire, where I take up temporary residence in the Lion’s Pride Inn. Due to the unfortunate state of events in the region, I was forced to abandon my post as Headmaster of the Moonbrook Schoolhouse. Please accept my application to serve as tutor for your offspring. Headmaster Crillian of the Academy can speak to you of my abilities if necessary.
I shall travel to meet you in person when the winter rains subside and the roads are suitable for travel once again.
Until then,
Stalvan Mistmantle of Silverpine
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Stalvan_Mistmantle
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Legend_of_Stalvan

In conclusion, I would say that being tutored in Gilneas by another mage would be a good path. Much like in lore, having a tutor character in your backstory you apprenticed under can have potential for a dramatic history, depending on your relationship with that mentor, their own motives versus your own, what happened to them, and where they are today. Alternatively, going to a small school for it could be possible, as well as having been stuck -outside- the wall for those ten years. Or, like Archmage Arugal, the character was in Dalaran studying, and moved back into the walled up Gilneas once they graduated. After all, they could have used a portal back to Gilneas.

I hope this helps! I hope the mage character turns out well, and have fun! :bacon:

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Thank you so much for answering my questions! This helps me a lot and actually fits into what I wanted for her backstory; I really like the tutor aspect versus going off to Dalaran. I feel that it truly is more Gilnean to do and I will focus quite a bit on this character now that I know where to go. I will keep checking back.

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How physically imposing & stronger are Worgens? Are they able to stand on a toe-to-toe with an orc and zandalari troll where humans can’t due to physical weakness?

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How strong are worgen? :muscle:

Exactly how strong are worgen compared to other races?

What is strength?

Strength really is difficult to say exactly, as it varies between individuals as well as races. We do, however, have bits and pieces that show the prowess of worgen when it comes to brute strength. They excel in several other things that put them above and beyond humans – including agility of elves, speed of mechanostriders, and eyes of an eagle – but we’ll focus on brute strength.

Feats of strength

In Curse of the Worgen, the very first glimpse of the wolfmen is a worgen raising a human man above his head with both arms, and pulling him in half, a feat of strength in itself. Later in the comic we also see worgen tearing a head off a satyr’s body, and a worgen catching and raising another fullgrown worgen male above his head with a single arm. (The average human man weighs 200lb, and Wolfheart says worgen swell a third in height and girth, so a worgen man would be 300lb on average.) Worgen also bust through obstacles such as hardwood double doors in issue 4, as well as glass windows. And last but not least, Genn Greymane stomps on the stone floor in the Stormheim cinematic, and it cracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyh5FKMvVPA

Examples of worgen strength
  1. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/worgen
  2. https://imgur.com/5dgQuJW
  3. https://imgur.com/CXfFUbJ
  4. https://imgur.com/pXMQPF3
  5. https://imgur.com/X3IUr1x
  6. https://imgur.com/cxbjItj
  7. https://imgur.com/yjD0rYl
  8. https://imgur.com/hnyGkKb
  9. https://imgur.com/nv2S358
  10. https://imgur.com/otvZYXX
  11. https://imgur.com/F72A1o7
  12. https://imgur.com/4h7sWUZ

“Racial modifiers”

Another source to consider is the actual Base Attributes to worgen compared to other races, including strength, intelligence, spirit, and more. While I do not necessarily consider it canon, it does show an idea of the difference between races. This chart puts worgen as the third strongest, just under that of Tauren and Dwarves, and tied with Orcs. But it also puts them as the second most agile under Night Elf and tied with Blood Elf and Gnome, and gives them the worst intelligence. Which, considering how agile Sin’dorei rangers can be, and how muddled the worgen mind can be with rage and instinct, this might be accurate.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Base_attributes#Racial_modifiers

Restraining a worgen

But as strong as worgen may be, they have also been restrained in a variety of ways. Alpha Prime and Halford Ramsey have both been restrained by druidic vines, unable to get free until the druid has stopped or fled, and Mardigan has been restrained by magic chains summoned by his father Archmage Karlain. Gilnean worgen and Bloodfang worgen are seen in the comics and ingame restrained in stocks, metal cages, and even a guillotine (though they have also been sedated in each of those cases). So while worgen are capable of great feats of strength, on top of their roof-jumping and super-leaping, they can also be restrained just like most races.

Worgen vs races

As for going toe-to-toe with other races, it’s hard to say! We do have that one example of Genn Greymane slapping Saurfang in the Battle for Azeroth trailer, and Genn going one-on-one with Sylvanas in the Stormheim cinematic, meanwhile Saurfang challenged Sylvanas and lost. None of those cases were strictly tests of brute strength, however, and depended on agility as well. Something Genn could match, and Saurfang could not. Regardless, Genn’s victories in both cases could not have been as easily done as a human, and he would likely have depended on swordplay instead, like Varian.

Thanks for the chance to revisit the topic in greater detail! Thankyou for the question, and I look forward to more. :bacon:

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awoo

/10chars