The power of chains of ice and grip are essentially mobility for the DK. DK’s can kite every melee in the game when both of their respective snares are applied. On top of the endless tools and insane dammage they do passively, without having to be in melee once they press apoc, I’d say their mobility is probably more than they even deserve.
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I know about chains of ice and all that but you see people still complain about ret mobility and they have more than dk and on top of that have the burst dmg to 1 shot someone
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That was before many things happened lmao. When wog was added back as a baseline ability it was healing for crap number because it had the 60% healing reduction from the bfa one that was LoH 3 people at once, the talent version.
Also it didnt have its interaction with Healing Hands. Then healing hands was introduced and healed for way too much, then brought down.
Then they also added a hidden 30% healing buff to wog recently.
Now here come the design part, death strike use an 2nd resource that’s only used for 2 abilities, death strike and death coil (or the aoe one if unholy) while word of glory use the main resource used to do damage. And not using templar’s verdict to use wog instead is a massive damage loss since templar’s is the hardest hitting ability we have. Also, our defensives are on really long cooldown, divine shield is 5min, can be removed by priests and wars. BoP is eclusively used as trinket for healer, and we are left with shield of vengeance, a 8k absorb on 2.5min cooldown.
Ret is a play to win spec, so it wants to win quickly, if they can’t land a kill they become worse and worse with dampening ticking higher, its shortest defensive will be worse and worse by dampening and its survibility with wog just get more and more reduced to be almost noticable. You can’t wog while being stunned, so you just nearly die every stun go. Even on beta I would be spamming wog on my partner getting trained with Holy Avenger for 20sec (basically can use wog every other gcd) and I still had to literally spam wog for every other gcd because my wog wouldn’t heal enough and eventually we lost.
Ret has an extremely offensive playstyle with cooldowns ready but then fall back to be super defensive, barely doing damage till cds are back up and just spam wog.
It’s a unique playstyle and ret isn’t omega strong. Obviously damage wise on beta they are a bit over the top, mainly because of Final Reckoning.
And to be honest, every ret would take damage and healing nerf for better defensives and mobility, because that’s what we’ve been asking since they crapped the ret design in legion.
Ret design is honestly so scuffed, you tune it wrong by few % and it become crap
so like i said, they said buff it and now it is buffed and its cancer to fight once again, shocker.
like I said, dampening kill ret
dampening kills a lot of things
also
i know how ret works ive played with a few of the best ones on na xd
also i wasnt called for buffs to wog, just to remove the 60% template nerf because it was obviously not the same ability anymore.
Now its obviously too much, but its only a talent that make it too much, tune the talent for pvp and ez fix
You obviously have never played the spec and it shows glaringly.
Steed doesn’t suppress snares, has to be paired with freedom. Double steed costs reduced CD on your SoV and bubble.
SoV is only reliable in duels. The damage splits on pets, so in almost any situation it’s pathetic in competitive pvp. Can tank bad rogues in 2v2. Also affected by damp
Sanct can’t be cast in stun, worthless on self. Better off saving it for teammate.
Loss of C&S means unbound freedom takes up a pvp talent. Sanct is a 100% pick, therefore 1 talent remains. So we get to decide between a snare or damage, most people (Kyrian is the play imo) will have to choose lawbringer.
Can’t generate consistent HP while being kited. Snare can be dispelled and has a 30s cool down.
We only have mobility with freedom, so 1/3 of the time without Uther Legendary. Don’t forget priest can now lockout freedom for 20 seconds.
So what you have is a class whose entire defensive toolkit (outside of 8s that has two dispels atm) is impacted by damp. Name 1 other spec that happens too, I’ll wait.
Remember in early bfa when literally everybody said dks suck and needed a deathstrike buff for survivability?
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deathstrike: damage + healing, can pool multiple of them
wog: healing instead of damage, requires procs to get more than one
i wouldnt mind if death strike did 0 dmg and just healed. with pally you wog once from 10% hp and your 100% then you just 1 shot someone in the next global
I feel like that’s an exaggeration
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with wings*
Still an exaggeration
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Why? We have a tank hybrid, I don’t feel particularly tanky.
Give DK a 10% damage reduction passive and we’ll talk.
It happened to me in 5v5 1v1s with wings popped right when I thought I was going to win they popped it and I lost
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I’m so sorry you have to make a decision when choosing talents like every other class in the game. Short bubble was really only a choice when ineff was a thing and / or if you were going into a dampener like mage lock. This is why you can choose your talents in the start room; you choose double steed if you’re likely to chase all game. Not to mention that the pace of the game is SO fast right now that it’s virtually made that choice for you; if you’re taking short bubble over double steed when there is even a small possibility that you’ll be chasing that’s you’re own poor decision making.
There are so many classes that are losing valuable 4th pvp talents from C&S being gone. This is hardly a ret problem. If you play against a purge heavy team, guess what; you have to take undispelable freedom. Imagine being grateful you even have the option.
Players that don’t know to preemtively press buttons (like sanc when you’re clearly about to be kidney’d) are generally not great at arena and tend to blame everything but themselves. This is all starting to make sense.
Pre shielding damage when your healer is going to tank CC is hardly worthless and if you think it is, again, it’s because you’re reactively pressing buttons instead of pre-emptively, which is generally too late. This is a git guud problem.
Neither can DK, Enhance, DH, or any other melee that has empowered healing tied to generating resources or being in melee. Like what is your point here? Are you honestly complaining about lack of HPS as a ret paladin?!
Is this you complaining about having a freedom sprint 33% of your time in the arena?! Imagine having the awareness to save your unstoppable death machine mobility for when you have damage and not arbitrarily cause you’re tilted that you’re being kited?
??? Karma, vial, DH leech, Maelstrom healing, VE, Dispersion, mage shields, cauterize, soul leech, healthstone, ignore pain, death strike, AMS, exhil. the list goes on and on. And how is this a problem when almost no games are going to damp at the moment?
Look man literally everything you’ve said here makes almost no sense. I get that it’s hard when everyone is hating hard on your class and they don’t get that it’s not as free win to actually play as it seems; Ret isn’t as UBERGOD as everyone is acting like, it is REALLY good in almost every way and was really really good in BFA.
I grew tired of hearing ret paladins pretend like their class was bad in season 4. Every class has their weakness and Ret’s is that it’s mobility isn’t quite as good as it’s melee counterparts. But thats because their damage is insane and they have ridiculous amounts of utility. They can contribute in almost every way you could ever imagine contributing to winning arena games.
Ret is insane at the moment and just because you’re not perfect and have some weaknesses doesn’t make your class bad… like how you can NOT be happy with the current state is asinine.
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Prob was something else/you weren’t full hp
You’re actually flat wrong on this. In 3s you always picked short bubble, period.
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