With near universal approval can we get a response about dual spec please

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Zipzo-atiesh

You have no proof they are considering dual spec though, and all signs currently point to no, they haven’t mentioned it once and dual spec has been a discussion since before TBCC launched.

Did blizzard mention they were considering world buffs before they announced the chrono boom?

[Kerg-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kumasama-westfall

Sorry, but if you’re going to advocate for or against “RPG elements” in a game that you don’t even consider to be an RPG, then I’m not sure what to tell you.

You misread.

[Vicesify-azralon]

just because you add 4 lines of code on a project doesnt mean you “remake it” …

[Coacholsson-bigglesworth]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Did blizzard mention they were considering world buffs before they announced the chrono boom

okay you can have dual spec 5 months after the final phase is released, deal.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

Okay fine.

If they add dual spec a couple months or whatever before WOTLKC, I’m totally fine with that.

Deal?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Coacholsson-bigglesworth

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Did blizzard mention they were considering world buffs before they announced the chrono boom

okay you can have dual spe c 5 months after the final phase is released, deal.

We’ll see

Oh and BTW chrono boom is in classic for all time now, so yeah same would apply with dual spec in TBC Classic

[Coacholsson-bigglesworth]

@Vicesify-azralon

just because you add 4 lines of code on a project doesnt mean you “remake it”

you’re changing it. remodeling it. remaking it. putting something there that was never there before. yes it does. thats the definition.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Coacholsson-bigglesworth

@Vicesify-azralon

just because you add 4 lines of code on a project doesnt mean you “remake it”

you’re changing it. remodeling it. remaking it. putting something there that was never there before. yes it does. thats the definition.

Modify != remake

[Kumasama-westfall]

@Kerg-bloodsail-buccaneers

@Kumasama-westfall

Sorry, but if you’re going to advocate for or against “RPG elements” in a game that you don’t even consider to be an RPG, then I’m not sure what to tell you.

You misread.

No, I didn’t. You’re laying down a staple and then saying that WoW is included on your “timeline” of RPGs even when it contradicts your staple.

[Coacholsson-bigglesworth]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We’ll see

Oh and BTW chrono boom is in classic for all time now, so yeah same would apply with dual spec in TBC Classic

we sure will, i dont even think youll get it before wrath prepatch at the EARLIEST.

but yes, thats fine, as i have said previously, i want to play through TBC and im done. 5 months after the final phase is released, go ham, idc. its not like anyone is left on vanilla Classic servers, there won’t be anybody left on TBC Classic servers either.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

Yeah and dual spec can remain for all time in TBC at that point too.

[Elorael-remulos]

Where is “near universal” coming from?

Cause that’s not even close to what the forums have seen.

[Riger-arugal]

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

So why did Blizzard feel the need to add dual-spec when the relative cost to respec would have been minuscule compared to what it was the 5 or 6 years earlier when they chose that price?

Because it fit with their design imperative of people bringing players to raid rather than classes “bring the player not the class”. Respect is just about cost. Bliz wanted players to do various functions conveniently under the new design model.

GC stated this as much.

@ Blizzard - GC quote and balance. - Blue Tracker

“It would be nice if the person swapping in and out were the same person (via dual spec).”

It came after release so they could test and evaluate the impact of the class changes first.

But as stated TBC didn’t have that design ethos. WoTLK is the application of the design goals you are seeking. Dual spec doesn’t achieve that on its own, Blizzard actually waited until other WoTLK features were in place first.

TBC is not the right home for this feature. TBC class design is not based around flexibility but rather around niches - it is the opposite design approach.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Riger-arugal

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

So why did Blizzard feel the need to add dual-spec when the relative cost to respec would have been minuscule compared to what it was the 5 or 6 years earlier when they chose that price?

Because it fit with their design imperative of people bringing players to raid rather than classes “bring the player not the class”. Respect is just about cost. Bliz wanted players to do various functions conveniently under the new design model.

GC stated this as much.

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/15973677341--blizzard-gc-quote-and-balance/

“It would be nice if the person swapping in and out were the same person (via dual spec).”

It came after release so they could test and evaluate the impact of the class changes first.

But as stated TBC didn’t have that design ethos. WoTLK is the application of the design goals you are seeking. TBC isn’t.

That quote clearly shows they consider dual spec a superior option than swapping in alts/bench players which is what currently happens.

[Thereza-netherwind]

@Rotationn-illidan

Like the title says. DS is by far one the most popular features real fans of TbC want.

Dragon Soul, yes, such feature that near universal approval.

Also:

@Kaivax

Using the words “Blizzard,” “Blue,” or any community team members’ names in a thread topic is frowned upon.

Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that; however, use of such words in the subject line does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion.

Cringe calling out “blues”.
Stop talking on behalf of the community. You are nothing, no one, nobody.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

If the 50g respec cost is good for the game then the only way for us to enjoy its benefits is to adjust it for inflation.

hey, you’ll hear no counter arguments from me. increase it to 100g. or even higher.

[anon76557919]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We’ll see

Oh and BTW chrono boom is in classic for all time now, so yeah same would apply with dual spec in TBC Classic

Once TBC has gone through its cycle, I don’t care what they do to the game. I wanted to be able to play through the game as it was; not how it could have been.

[Riger-arugal]

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

So why did Blizzard feel the need to add dual-spec when the relative cost to respec would have been minuscule compared to what it was the 5 or 6 years earlier when they chose that price?

Because it fit with their design imperative of people bringing players to raid rather than classes “bring the player not the class”. Respec is just about cost. Bliz wanted players to do various functions conveniently under the new design model. GC stated this as much.

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

They said they wanted people to be able to play the game.

But it was a completely different design philosophy to TBC. The Lead Designer of TBC said he wanted choices to be impactful. Both games had different design imperatives.

There seems to be this almost dogmatic idea that one design methodology is “good” and the other “bad” they both have pros and cons - they’re different. But it isn’t right or consistent to simply take the design approach of one expansion and superimpose its values and goals onto another - especially where it’s a design approach that was largely an answer to the one you’re trying to superimpose it on. It’s a bit like doing a historical re-enactment where you Romanise pre Roman Europe simply because you prefer the way the Romans did it. Fine but this isn’t the right place for it. Wait.

There are supporters and detractors of both approaches. There’s no right and wrong, they’re just different values. But don’t force your design values on those who chose this game. Wait for the game that best represents your idea of great game design to come out.

Blizzard didn’t have one consistent list of design goals through all of wow, TBC had a different design team than WoTLK had and thus a different approach and different priorities and design values. A classic version should attempt to be consistent with those and not impose design values set in later expansions.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Riger-arugal

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

So why did Blizzard feel the need to add dual-spec when the relative cost to respec would have been minuscule compared to what it was the 5 or 6 years earlier when they chose that price?

Because it fit with their design imperative of people bringing players to raid rather than classes “bring the player not the class”. Respec is just about cost. Bliz wanted players to do various functions conveniently under the new design model. GC stated this as much.

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

They said they wanted people to be able to play the game.

But it was a completely different design philosophy to TBC. The Lead Designer of TBC said he wanted choices to be impactful. Both games had different design imperatives.

There seems to be this almost dogmatic idea that one design methodology is “good” and the other “bad” they both have pros and cons - they’re different. But it isn’t right or consistent to simply take the design approach of one expansion and superimpose its values and goals onto another - especially where it’s a design approach that was largely an answer to the one you’re trying to superimpose it on.

There are supporters and detractors of both approaches. There’s no right and wrong, they’re just different values. But don’t force your design values on those who chose this game. Wait for the g ame that best represents your idea of great game design to come out.

Except that TBC also did do a lot to make the game more inclusive. So yeah I don’t see how dual spec is out of line with that.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Redshadowz-heartseeker

Or to put it another way, the 50g respec prevents people from playing the game.

oh, it actually prevents the game client from starting on their computers? that sounds like a serious bug