With near universal approval can we get a response about dual spec please

With all due respect - I have not used the term #nochanges to describe my position or as a justification. I’ve tried to direct you to an explanation of the design intent behind time gating features like talent respecialisation. I’ve tried to outline - multiple times and in detail - the differences in design approach between TBC and WoTLK and why dual spec fits one and not the other.

You either don’t accept my reasoning which is fair or you’re not paying attention.

You’re within your rights to reject my reasoning and therefore my argument but you can’t claim I haven’t made the argument.

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Right but that simply isn’t how respecs work out. It’s not a time sync it’s a players just stop playing.

It is a time sink. You have to grind the gold, travel to the old world and select every talent and arrange all your abilities. All of this instead of simply toggling the talent selection in a menu.

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And they won’t, Ziryus. They’re just going to keep going in circles with you assuming a #NoChanges status in a #SomeChanges environment.

But not everybody does that.

Some people do farm the gold and do regularly respec.

This is an example of a player who understands what they got in to, and is playing the game the way it asks of them to play it, the way a classic version of the game is meant to be.

The ones that voluntarily refuse to do this don’t get to simply ask for a way around it just because “more fun”. That is not the way a classic version of the game is meant to be.

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Just say you’re a girl and make a post about dual spec and they will come running

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They’ll be too busy playing COD to notice.

And once again how does dual spec actually hurt anyone?

I lolled, cried a little on the inside too…

Okay, is it some kinda fetish for you? Asking the same question in as many different kind of ways as you can think up as if it hasn’t been answered yet?

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It doesn’t. Nor does any popular change. All it does is water down the game by front loading the “fun”. You get to have all your fun now at the expense of later. So, it doesn’t hurt anyone but if you want to keep enjoying the game in a years time this is not the way to go about it.

Why save money, what harm does spending and living it up now do? Well none. But you miss out later.

Dual spec is a fun feature that fits right in as a drawcard for WoTLK. It’s a great thing to look forward to. It’ll be fun if they implement it now too - but it’ll get old quickly as we’ll be done with the content in no time and there’ll be very little to do but fly around aimlessly on our mounts until WoTLK, which itself will have one less feature to look forward to.

Within weeks there’ll be a min max culture around dual speccing in TBC to maximize buff and debuffs. That will just lock in more and more as people rerun the same stuff over and over mostly raid logging. No real reason to run alts, no reason to group up for world quests, no reason to grind gold, and only head back to the old world to put up auctions. TBC will become a waiting room for WoTLK and WoTLK will have one less feature to deliver.

It is already becoming like this - but dual spec will just push it a little more down that path by removing a grind in a version of the game that has very little content outside of the grind.

If you don’t like old school grinders, TBC is not the expansion for you. Removing the grinds makes it an empty shell of a game.

Some changes are worthwhile but changes that make things that were intended to be grindy less grindy shouldn’t be made. There’s a lot of unintended inconvenience that I think can and should be fixed. Updating graphics is a good change that they would have done back in the original if they had the tech to do it. Reduced lag is similar. Improved spawn time algorithms to accommodate increased populations. But not having easier respeccing or dual speccing is a design choice, and intended inconvenience. It’s by design adn should stay this way until WoTLK.

See I haven’t simply argued #nochanges, I have provided scope for change that I think is fair and defined why I think change in this case is not right for the game - in detail (again).

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I don’t want to dis Ziryus as he’s making a concerted attempt to put forward a genuine discussion on this from his side and in good faith. Without personal attacks or misrepresentation etc. Others haven’t done so.

But I do think there’s an element of cognitive dissonance going on with his position. It is easier not to accept that an argument has been made and not to hear it than it is to concede that a valid point has been raised.

The same goes the other way to - though I’d argue not as much. He has raised a good point and we sort of brush it off. He is claiming that our argument boils down to #nochanges, and to an extent it does - though not to the extent he is claiming. We are both putting forward the idea that the authenticity of the TBC experience trumps convenience and popularity of a feature.

#nochanges is an overly simplistic description of our position but we are arguing for a conservative evaluation of change. Essentially, if it isn’t broke (or if the change won’t fully fix it) don’t fix it. We’re arguing against proactive change. I think with good reason.

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Only argument this man has against dual-spec is this:

I’m paying 15 dollars a month

I don’t like changes, it wasn’t in MY TBC

I won’t talk to people in game about how they feel, so I must be the majority, so I’m right.

You joined this July. Along with a lot of people demanding a feature change. Sorry but you chose to come in at the wrong time. Wait a year or so and your game will be here. Stop trying to screw up TBC for those who actually wanted TBC.

Given the number of new accounts I strongly suspect that many of those who want a WoTLK classic came on board now as releasing TBC classic was a signal that there’d be more old expansions released. That’s fine and all but wait your turn.

My guild played through classic vanilla, they don’t all support dual spec in TBC classic. Some do but not all or most that I’ve spoken to.

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Lmao, played since 2004, this account was made simply to play on the horde on my server. Played through all of classic as well. Dual-spec is needed. WotLK was a better expansion, yes, but TBC with dual-spec will simply be a better version of TBC and it won’t change anything critical about the game. People like you are just trying to ruin it for the rest of us with the lack of QoL changes. It’s not 2007 anymore Riger, sorry.

Maybe a coincidence then but the characters of about 80% of those pushing for dual spec started their post history from July this year…

No doubt your account is much older, lots of us have come back. But it’s interesting how many characters on the pro dual spec spectrum are fresh.

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Might want to take that tinfoil hat off bud. You’ll use anything you can to discredit peoples’ opinions it would appear. Care to explain in grand detail why exactly you’re against dual-spec? What will it change? Also, don’t answer with these things, okay?:

I don’t like changes, TBC wasn’t like this. (cause you would have quit already if you didn’t like changes)

I pay 15 dollars a month for unchanged TBC

Most people don’t want dual spec.

Good luck

Well maybe rather than preach that my preferred game design is stupid, let me have my fun and come back when your rerelease ships?

I mean your entire argument is that this game design is bad and unpopular, don’t play it then. Come back for Wrath.

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No, that wasn’t my argument. I just said it’d make it better than it already is, and it would. You refuse to provide a reason as to why having dual-spec in TBC will make the game worse. You just deflect. It’s a good thing blizzard is ignoring the no changes crowd this time around.

Lol you literally said it was stupid game design.

Don’t play it then. We already know it gets “improved” come back then.

We didn’t have these arguments back in Vanilla classic not like this. So what changed, idk maybe all the new names popping up.

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