I like horsey, my “issue” with it is that it’s a speed boost, not a gap closer.
So not really an issue but you see where I’m coming from.
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That makes sense. I just feel like that’d probably be considered as objectively far stronger than even 30yds per 30s. Would this be done instead of Divine Steed?
I have a feeling it’d be reduced to like 6% for each of up to 5 HP now, since we’re far from such times as LAotL giving a 45-50% movement speed bonus on Judgment, Posthaste giving 80% speed, Shadowstrike teleporting Subs 40 yds, etc., but…
…Yeah, I think I could get behind that regardless, actually; definitely fits with the dauntless avenger vibe, as Judgment, Exo, and Blade would increasingly get you in position to TV.
Some less desireable implications like especially wanting to keep 2 HP in the bag whenever possible and feeling weirdly slow on engage, but… yeah, I’d dig having it back, even if at modern tuning.
To be fair, I’d be fine with that if/when (and only if/when) they give us something else. Two separate CDs, though obviously to be taxed harder, will of course be better for frequent movement than two charges of the same skill.
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That’s fair, I think it mostly depends on the perspective of PvE vs PvP.
In PvE considering the distance and the speed you might as well consider Steed instant (minus the GCD which Leap would also have), but yeah in PvP where there is more difference and is certainly an argument for WoL having an advantage is certain situations.
Like if Divine Steed is sticking around, I’d rather see a “worse” mobility tool with more flexibility be added as that is really where we fall short, somewhere between the all (horse) or nothing (out of cds).
If that was a nerfed version of WoL with a much shorter cd I’d be all over it.
My perspective is mostly PvE focused though as that is typically where Ret suffers substantially from it’s strengths not offsetting it’s weaknesses.
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Quick question, then… let’s say Steed does get sidelined and instead becomes a situational movement tool, something along the lines of a 90s or 2-minute a la Stampeding Roar (with WoL or internal-CD-limited uses of blink-strikes made available by Crusader Aura, or some sort of twist on Dragon Charge, etc., taking that primary position)…
What’s something that could be wonderfully thematic… without only seeing decent use (relative to its maximum potential) in incredibly rare situations?
Well at the moment it’s even 45s cd so it would be drastically better (although why WoL isn’t 40yrds in alignment with Heroic Leap causes confusion).
Honestly though I would even say 15yrds. What ever works, just more about having a weaker mobility tool that we can go to.
I mean either or. Instead of Divine Steed, instead of additional Divine Steed charges. Only 1 charge. Most variations would still be an improvement.
They do love to monkey paw…
I wish they would move away from considering 5HP to be the cap though. (Looking at you D&D)
The additional 2HP are an over fill, not a resource per se. They need to stop treating it as one.
I don’t see 15% passive plus 5% per HP upto 3 being excessively strong though tbh, and it never was able to compete with LAotL at the time.
It has cost attached to it which reduces it’s power, if you want to stay faster you do so at the cost of your throughput and not being able to spend your resources.
That’s a pretty decent trade off in my opinion.
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My apologies, end of day brain and I’m struggling to comprehend the question fully.
So to reiterate are you asking what would be a thematic mobility tool that is highly versatile to fill the gap if Divine Steed was considered more of a niche tool (ie saved for situations in which the greater mobility is important)?
Is that correct?
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I was kind of just assuming they’d prefer that route over 10% each to a cap of 3 because of that sort of ramping rush they’ve made iconic to Ret since pushing Crusade so hard.
We’ve talked about this before, and I do still feel like passive movement speeds claim a disproportionate stake in thematic ground (to me, with a talent Ret should be more than WAR/Hunter passive but still less than Rogue, or the choice needs to be very deliberate one, as per a choice node)… but what of whatever would be like… 2 stacks’ worth baseline? (So like… 10-25%, with cap at 3 HP, which means you could largely stick to 20%?)
…Personally, I feel I’m still more partial to the going up to 5 HP, just because of how close to the maximum you’d always be anyways, which would encourage the total being tuned down anyways. I prefer the idea of surging from 40-100% of that bonus, rather than only from 67 to 100%, as HP increases. (It otherwise feels like the only active component, after some very brief ramp-up, is that 33%, with the majority being basically passive, instead of the more actively engaged with component.)
- So, 6% each, or like a 8% base and 3% per stack, to a max of 5 stacks, would seem most thematic just feasible to me.
No problem; end of the day braincell and I’m struggling to word questions well.
Kind of the opposite.
So, Divine Steed gets replaced / is no longer the primary movement tool. But that frees this reworked Divine Steed up to be something rarer and really fun/thematic/juicy.
What might you like to see there (or imagine other Ret vets might) that could be really cool and almost cheesily good for very particular fights, but also practical enough to be taken as a comfort investment in a decent number of other fights?
For instance, should that then remain GCD but just be more than proportionately longer and possibly granting knockback immunity and considerable snare resistance? Should it be able to knock enemies backwards so that you can gather ranged mobs and AoE interrupt (/shudder at M+ implications, but just spitballing here)? What comes to mind?
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I have not raided much as Ret since WoD (I just can’t enjoy Ret as much there as in M+, so different alts for different purposes), so I feel like I lack the experience to guess well at an answer.
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My apologies if I’m not able to respond until morning. Brain crashing.
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delete this before they get ideas
Oh you’re not wrong it is definitely something that could happen lol.
That’s fair, although it depends on how you view it thematically. A passive speed increase is simply a necessary step in being able to create the thematic design of something being an unrelenting pursuer (the theme Blizzard said they have for the spec).
You can’t have the whole “can’t be slowed” design, whilst simultaneously already being slower than everything by default. (As far as balance goes)
Depends on tuning I guess old design was 15% with 5% per HP upto 3 for a max of 30%.
Generally you would expect to fluctuate from around 20-25%, but it would be highly fluctuating.
Typically (ignoring D&D) you build to 4 most commonly and 5 every so often.
That means you are usually expending down to 1-2 HP, and since typical play results in spending quicker than accumulating (due to lack of cd restrictions) I would expect you spend proportionally slightly more time at those HP levels.
I definitely understand from a thematic point of view, however you also have to take into consideration other factors like potential external buffs, rotation flow etc.
Often the mobility boost would be either largely negligible or even irrelevant (WW passive buff negates 0-1HP entirely).
The ramping up design is definitely something I feel is thematic of Retribution (Crusade and Relentless Inquisitor being some of the few nods to this), however unless you had either a) some passive baseline to build from or b) a scaled design where earlier generation contributes more (which is more technical, and also less player intuitive)
I mean honestly if we’re talking Divine Steed replacement (in the event of having a basic mobility tool that forms a staple to our mobility)
I would honestly be happy for something like this WoL, although in the case of having that other staple mobility tool Divine Steed would still be suitable (although there are still things I find problematic about it, although in that situation it’s less PvE related and more from the perspective of other classes).
It’s hard to think what we could have thematically especially as something big.
I don’t think the class is really something that lends itself to high mobility.
Like a leap could look cool, and Divine Steed also makes sense for needing to move really large distances.
Anything else really falls outside of that “rarer and really fun/thematic/juicy” category you specified.
To me outside of that you are looking at themes like zealous fervour (scaling PoJ) or receiving a blessing from the light to increase your speed (Speed of Light for eg) which lend themselves more to lower/less aggressive and more versatile (or at least persistent/generalised) mobility tools.
I hope that answers your question and I’m not just completely off track.
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Not sure why people get excited over this. More often than not things like this don’t make it onto live servers. Also: they will NEVER give us an exact copy of Heroic Leap. We might get something, but sure as heck not Heroic Leap.
Because it’s fun?
If only we had ptr and forums and Reddit and other avenues of communication and you not being a killjoy.
If only.
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To each their own I guess.
To be fair, it’s not an exact copy of Heroic Leap. It’s a flat out worse version lol.
Then we might have a chance. For me it read like Heroic Leap but I don’t know the exact wording of HL’s tooltip.
Edit: Uhm, I just read HL’s tooltip and it is the EXACT same. Not gonna happen.
OOo what if it did a slow or dropped a consecration when you landed?
Wait, Wings of Liberty, maybe it breaks snares/roots on takeoff/landing?
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It’s basically Heroic Leap with 25% less range, and from what little details no known interaction like the reduced cd and speed boost of talented Heroic Leap.
I mean neither would truly make it any thing special or better per se.
After all it is a mobility tool first and foremost, and honestly if Blizzard continues to push the agenda of “Ret’s utility does throughput” then I’ll probably scream.
That would at least somewhat identify it apart from just being a worse Heroic Leap.
It doesn’t really help address any of Ret’s current problems though so it would be quite superfluous.
That was purely a WoL focused stream of consciousness :3
They at least need to change the animation and the wording. Everything else would be ridiculous. And I’d still like some proper LAotL more than a leap, but that’s just me.
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haha my apologies, I didn’t mean to stomp on your parade, I mistook it as a question.
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No worries, Tauren gotta stomp ^w^