Windwalker QOL

  • Serenity is now baseline
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire is now in final talent row replacing Serenity
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces your damage, and the clones now do 20% of your damage.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones now Flying Serpent Kick at fixated enemies every time you activate an ability and hit with the copied ability. Copied functionality from Beastmaster Hunter’s Kill Command. This guarantees they will ALWAYS hit their target with copied abilities.
  • Spiritual Focus now reduces Serenity cooldown instead of Earth, Wind, and FIre
  • Spiritual Focus now reduces cooldown by 1 second per 1 chi spent, down from 2 chi.
  • Whirling Dragon Punch no longer locks you in place during it’s animation, you can move while using it.
  • You can now Spear Hand Strike during Fist of Fury
  • Fist of Fury channel duration is now 2.5 seconds, down from 4 seconds
  • Fist of Fury damage and cooldown reduced by 25%
  • Tiger Palm damage reduced by 25%
  • Tiger Palm is now off the GCD and has a 1 second cooldown
  • Tiger Palm now costs 40 energy.
6 Likes

What is the point?

Tiger Palm 
Tiger Palm 
Xuen
SEF+Rising Sun Kick 
Covenant ability 
Fist of the White Tiger
Rising Sun Kick
Blackout Kick
Fists of Fury
Whirling Dragon Punch
Tiger Palm 
Rising Sun Kick
Blackout Kick
Spinning Crane Kick
Tiger Palm
Blackout Kick
Rising Sun Kick
Blackout Kick
Tiger Palm
Blackout Kick 
SEF + Rising Sun Kick
Blackout Kick
Fists of Fury

I can’t think of a way that Tiger Palm off the GCD effected anything I did during testing. The damage reduction is also a random thing to add as a quality of life change

Another odd suggestion for QoL. The 4 second channel is a soft energy reset. It lets you do a considerable number of actions before the combination of resources and Tiger Palm weaving start to run short.

For a quick comparison: Black dragon scale & Vita charged

24 second base cooldown: 4 blackout kicks - 3 rising sun kicks - 7 tiger palms
3 chi remaining when FoF comes off cooldown - 18s effective cooldown

18 second base cooldown: 1 Rising Sun Kick - 2 blackout kicks - 2 tiger palms delay FoF for Chi 2 seconds past its off cooldown. Probably optimized would involve a lot more downtime and a lot less BoKs. - 15 or 16s effective cooldown

You want to go into Serenity with as little resources as possible while making sure your cooldowns are up when Serenity comes off cooldown. This means the 20 seconds before Serenity are when you spend the most erratically. A change like this also means this is when your CDR is happening most frequently. Serenity already lines up with our cooldowns and lets us dump before it. Gradually cutting seconds off I think is going to feel very awkward. I’d need to see this one in play.

2 Likes

I can’t think of a way that Tiger Palm off the GCD effected anything I did during testing. The damage reduction is also a random thing to add as a quality of life change

I think my reasoning for this was thinking of a way to make Haste slightly more relevant, and to also speed up the flow of our attacks. Tiger palm doing practically no damage feels bad on all 3 specs, but definitely for Windwalker the dps spec. Prot pally feels really satisfying when weaving the off GCD shield bash between attacks. (I realize it’s their active defense not to be wasted, but then wasted for dps is what I’m referring to. =p)

Another odd suggestion for QoL. The 4 second channel is a soft energy reset. It lets you do a considerable number of actions before the combination of resources and Tiger Palm weaving start to run short.

I think you’ve already heard all of the complains of FoF being such a long duration for what it does. Making it more condensed like Eye Beam would make it feel more impactful/satisfying (tick faster) .

You want to go into Serenity with as little resources as possible while making sure your cooldowns are up when Serenity comes off cooldown. This means the 20 seconds before Serenity are when you spend the most erratically. A change like this also means this is when your CDR is happening most frequently. Serenity already lines up with our cooldowns and lets us dump before it. Gradually cutting seconds off I think is going to feel very awkward. I’d need to see this one in play.

Here I was just asking for a buff to an underwhelming talent by doubling the CDR per chi.

Most of what I was changing was just focused on more of the feel of the spec than real effectiveness, from my experience playing it and how clunky it feels at times.

I appreciate your feedback/insight.

I’d like to toss these ideas into the pool.

ToD off the GCD.

BoK reduces the CD of FoF by 1.5 seconds.

SCK gives CDR to FoF and RSK in some manner.

1 Like

Omg just these, these alone would make me so insanely happy.

3 Likes

Actually this is a nerf. If you make serenity baseline you will be forced to pick SEF because it has still 2 charges and then you are without whirling dragon punch at all.

Serenity in it’s current design just doesn’t work with our mastery and FoF. You are forced to press blackout kicks in a row to get rising sun kicks and you can’t allow to cast FoF because it’s a channel time and takes away worthful time from your short serenity window.

some changes I personally like to see:

  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones are now immune to crowd control
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones are now permanently on your target without possiblity to kite
  • Whirling Dragon Punch made baseline
  • Replaced with Tigereye Brew: 2 Charges 30% damage and healing increase, your attacks ignore any Armor, Haste increased by 10% and each Chi spent reduces the cooldown by 1 sec (up to 3 sec). lasts 12 seconds. 1.5 min recharge. Replaces Storm, Earth, and Fire.
  • Serenity reworked. Enter a State of Serenity during 15 seconds all your Chi abilites are free of cost. 1.5 min cooldown
  • Spiritual focus removed
  • Another talent free of choice added can’t think of one right now but maybe Hurricane Strike or Chi explosion like it was in WoD or anything xuen related.

This would be the perfect level 100 talent row for me giving you possibilites to swap gameplay to certain situations for example Tigereye Brew for more sustained damage and against high armor targets as for paladins shamans warriors etc. And Serenity always improving one SEF window greatly.

1 Like

I’d rather not be forced to use SEF anymore. And if Serenity is that weak just buff it.

2 Likes

I like SEF, it’s a unique damage CD that no other class has. Serenity is just a boring old damage increase and resource buff. They just need to fix the SEF bugs and it’ll be a great CD.

Also, why reduce TP damage by 25%? It already hits for like 1/4 of one tick of a Lock dot, nerfing its damage even more is dumb. If anything it needs a 200% damage buff.

I wouldn’t mind WDP locking you in place if it did something. Like give you 100% parry for the duration sort of like how Blade Dance works with 100% dodge. I like that it’s another unique ability that we don’t see anywhere else, but if they’re going to root you in place then they should give you something to compensate. Like a kiss/curse.

Also if they want to improve our QoL they’ll make FSK and Chi Torpedo work in Z axis like Fel Rush. You’re being propelled by wind, why do you need to be on the ground to use them?

Also, make Zen Flight work as a self cast Levitate while in areas where you can’t fly.

2 Likes

I always thought WW should of had a slow fall or something close. I was playing Antorus today and i noticed I was the only person who had to wait for the elevator! Literally every1 else in the group had a way to break their fall or slow fall. NOT THE WW! Why??? “Wind WALKER!”

So I remembered something I saw from another game. I know its not great to steal from another game, but this ability is something we should have! Let me know if you other WW players would enjoy something close to this!!! Doesn’t need to be exactly this, but something fairly close would be cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLwdOk9Bvtg

5 Likes

It has always bugged me that pressing FSK in mid air would still result in fall damage even though your character model doesn’t touch the ground

1 Like

This would be incredibly overpowered if the ability had all that. Haste with the dmg I could see, but also being a 100% armor pen would be too much. Maybe 30% armor pen in an homage to how Tiger palm use to be.

Already compensates with the fact that it’s a momentum reset, can’t mention the amount of times I have avoided being knocked away in pve or pvp with it.

Only thing I would do is just remove the need to have rsk and fof on cd and just make it (when you next cast rsk and fof and both on cd trigger a buff on yourself for the to cast wdp at anytime for the next 15 seconds)
This would solve all the haste issues with it.

Yeah make it just a visual like the diablo 3 clones are, this would fix the issues. I would only change it to they don’t even auto attack unless you are also auto attacking

The brew from the brew house in the order hall that gives you a slow fall for an hour was a real slap in the face for me lol.

In PvE it wouldn’t matter. Bosses have a fixed amount of armor so the damage reduction would be a flat amount though the damage increase being 30% baseline is a little too high for an effect for like that. 30% baseline + 30% damage from armor pen.

On the flip, in PvP the damage bonus would be too low if it were any lower or Windwalker would have to go back to a version where we did reduced damage because of increased damage potential through SEF+TEB. The armor pen would be necessary though. Historically the one time where Windwalkers truly had a spot in RBGs across all brackets was when we replaced second rogue with Serenity+TEB and killed tanks.

The 10% haste is not that strong either I actually think it would work well as just part of what the modern Windwalker is. Windwalker haste doesn’t really allow us to start reducing cooldowns heavily through the effect but any fitting abilities inside a hasted window contribute to extra casts.

The idea sounds like a pita to try and scale and manage it for every day content but I don’t think it’s OP.

moment reset or just the unfortunate reality of just being locked in place if you want to be or not :joy:

Funny enough, the fix is that FoF/RSK trigger a buff that make WDP usable for the next “x” seconds, and the bug still exists. I haven’t run into the issue in Shadowlands so I think it’s just a thing with Fury of Xuen but who knows.

1 Like

That’s because in rbgs people expected WW monk to be part of team fights and not utilize it’s 1v1 superiority, as in for base maps going to solo cap.
A good WW could easily 1v2 a lot of different combinations of people for the majority of it’s life and if you had to pull people from the main team fight to stop 1 person, then your team fight will probably get that much tougher and could cause the tide to shift.
Which is why it made it hard to balance them in 3s.

His purposed changed has TeB as a talent replacing SEF so wouldn’t have to worry about this interaction causing us to have our sustained dropped down to compensate.

Didn’t say it was hence why I said didn’t have an issue with it.

However

No it wouldn’t because currently with TeB as is now even without SEF, I shred through tanks like they are butter (before even corruption), not to even to mention what I do to high armor non tanks with it.

With full dmg and a boost to boot, it would be stronger than current interaction of SEF+teb combo
Not saying no armor pen, just not a 100% pen.

I mean like I said I have used it to completely avoid any knockbacks in pve and maintain higher uptime because of it, it’s a bit trickier in pvp admittedly.
But I have even used in open world to jump down from a high spot while in combat.

But that only gave you a short time and is still based on the 2 not being off cd. I am saying make it just as soon as you used both rsk and fof the next 15 seconds or whatever you can use wdp regardless of whatever cd is left, if any at all, on rsk or fof.

Previously there were a lot of shenanigans though with zen med and sef clones all throughout MoP and WoD (in MoP I know of a couple ww rbg players but I wasn’t really in the community deep to really know the state well, I played bear druid so I got invites but never really made friends.)

It wasn’t just tuning or team fight vs solo potential, Windwalker was awkward AF, and you NEEDED TEB to really have an impact anywhere just like you needed the damage/healing from your Chi Torpedoes. You can’t get that if you don’t have uptime on something.

You couldn’t beat harass from a rogue, bm hunter, or mage. Even if you could win 1v1 it required you to pull a lot off the flag so I don’t know how frequently a 1v2 defend or cap was happening or if it even was tbh. Especially during double rogue meta there was just no way (even if legion rework didn’t happen and ww stayed as strong as it was). Through all the RBG meta’s there wasn’t a place where Windwalker was popping off until TEBWalker with Serenity/SoTWL.

People had that expectation because there wasn’t any other expectation to have.

You can’t invite a random guy and expect him to play like the Taiwan Windwalkers did. Can’t speak on MoP since I played tank but in I just can’t ever see myself losing a base to a WoDwalker. There was never any reason for a sustained engagement and they couldn’t win otherwise.

I have a post somewhere with all the math (it’s probably archived on old beta forums) but with the 20% damage reduction on TEB your only doing extra damage to tanks, hpals, and plate wearers and it’s only a small % increase. I’m pretty sure your shredding people because Windwalker does a good job at that right now.

Everything else is kind of mediocre to the point where a Disc takes less damage than you should be doing from base DR alone. Removing the 20% damage penalty would be 20% of the 30% suggested and that’s where I wanted to start BFA at so just from some of what I recall I wasn’t happy with not moving forward from that point.

I just don’t think its great but then again I haven’t really cared much with all this stuff post corruption so I haven’t looked at it outside of the bare minimum.

I was the highest rated WW in rbgs at the end of 5.4 (the strongest WW was consistently and not including the 5.2 lei shen shenanigans) no one beat that rating until legion unfortunately. WoD the highest I saw was just over 2k.
(I didn’t look at EU)

That’s literally what I did, SEF in pvp I never saw anyone use it past a prevent a healer from drinking or prevent a stealth.
The dmg from splitting just once was eventually more than the healer could handle because either they would die or more likely their dps would.
Splitting 3 ways however the individuals being hit was more than enough for most self sustain to handle.

The way changed in legion was one of the reasons one I quit before ED dropped.

I even said before corruption, in 8.2 could easily go through tanks/platewearers or guard affinity druids’ bear forms with just TeB.

You mean teb on everything else? Because it’s not an ability you use on leather and below, if you were you were wasting it.

When you would catch people in cleave it never felt good to do less damage to secondary targets on your own FoF, less damage again because SEF was fixated on a kill target either hitting them for reduced damage as well… if they were even hitting them…, and then less damage on top of that because you had TEB rolling for no reason other than you had a damage penalty and they didn’t have enough armor to offset it.

But I mean you are trying to use pre legion context for TeB in it’s post legion version, it was a situational talent to be used depending on what you fought.

It was a situational ability only to be used for the high armor targets though.
Honestly WW didn’t feel good for dmg in pvp anyways, for legion they basically just became a stunbot.
WW for it’s pvp life has basically rotated out warrior/rogue positions in comps, and that was no more apparent than in legion when basically only useful as a stunbot.

It was situational because the way it was designed but I don’t think it should have been when armor pen [and nature damage] was something we had that was unique to us but I guess that’s just how things go when they move something to a talent, especially one in the honor panel.

I only felt that TEB design should have reflected the old armor pen / nature damage style we had pre Legion, but it was also unnecessary to have changed it to be a damage decrease outside of a few high armor specs.

You don’t see the same thing happening to chaos damage/Fire damage on DHs, Shadow damage on sub, Nature on Assassination, etc. The design was inconsistent.

Unrelated but being rotated in / out for stun utility felt a lot better than “if ww can kill it in a burst window, its viable”.

The specs moved forward in some ways but not in as many ways as I would have liked.

I mean chi xplos wasn’t that much more dmg than an rsk in pvp ST with a 3 chi hit end of WoD. It’s strength came from the cleave and the ability to quickly stack up TeB.

And I don’t recall anyone actually like chi torp being top dmg potential.

Then last tiger palm was only a 30% armor pen.

Oh man I know that. I have played every iteration of WW monk, except the one yall all said was fun in tomb as I didn’t come back until after AtBT came out, and it’s always something new it feels like, but I have always had fun each time even if the numbers felt like the poops.
I always felt we were the red headed step children spec after blizzard saw their new class didn’t explode in popularity and feels like they sorta gave up on us.

That’s all we were in WoD though when walking dead became a thing.
And basically nonexistent before s14 in any real representation

I enjoyed the Chi Torpedo / Chi Burst damage. It gave ME kill potential and it unlinked it from Fists of Fury. That was probably the first time I could queue up in 2s and feel alright.

I feel like it got worse after the removal of FoF stun and the change from ToD from an execute to the 8 second window. There was nothing else we really brought to a game so if the one trick wasn’t successful, we weren’t successful.