I don’t think it would paint them weak at all. And losing it now doesn’t mean it’s lost forever. Tyrande choosing to rush back into Darkshore with no other backup besides the remaining Kaldorei was a horrible decision.(she was going whether or not the gilneans would assist them)
Logically, they’d lose horribly. It wouldn’t be because they’re weak, it’d because they’re rushing.
What really strikes me as odd is how impatient they’ve become in such little time. All this talk about how “the Alliance is failing them” meanwhile the Gnomes haven’t said one thing about Gnomeregan. That’s either testament to the Gnomes’ outstanding character or the Night elves’ entitlement. If it’s the latter, they deserve to be punished for it.
I mean, technically, Gnomeregan is reclaimed. On paper. It’ll just be a very, very long time before the radiation inside drops enough for the Gnomes to reclaim their city properly. It has nothing to do with resources from the Alliance and everything to do with running down the clock.
Also, I don’t think the Gnomes have the same kind of connection to Gnomeregan, that the Night Elves have to their forests. Those lands are spiritually and culturally vital to the identity of the Kaldorei. They’ve spent thousands upon thousands of years protecting those forests. The Gnomes can tinker anywhere.
This is why I say that losing Darkshore has a silver lining in that the Night Elves can grow and change as a people if they lose Kalimdor. They’d have to. Their entire identity would be gone.
The issue is, there isn’t anything WRONG with their current identity other than the fact that the writers don’t write it.
Think in the grand scheme of things, it would be better for the Night Elves to lose Darkshore + Teld in order to keep faction conflict relevant in the future. Suffering such a major loss should leave a lasting impact on Alliance, and for it all just to end up being all patched up like whatever doesn’t really make sense besides Blizz taking another quick jab at the Night Elves, as well as robbing the Horde of the first major victory in the war.
I feel like with factions having continent wide control, the war will finally be settled to Cold-War status never to be Expansion worthy again, while at the same time hatred of the opposing side will make sense for both factions on wards, keeping the PVP aspect of the game relevant to the story. (hopefully)
Feels like a better alternative for the game rather than everyone holding hands in the end despite all the messed up crap we’ve done to each other, as well as either side reclaiming their lost lands.
Maybe some personal growth for Tyrande and Malfurion then? In my honest opinion, neither of them are likeable… like at all.
But I didn’t play the Warcraft games, so I don’t know if they were portrayed differently or what.
Still, everywhere I’ve seen tyrande she’s been brash, impulsive, impatient, and combative. Her portrayal in wherever else doesn’t really matter here(I’m gonna argue as if warcraft lore isn’t full of inconsistencies and horrible writing). I think she could stand to become more patient and serene. Especially now that she has godlike powers.
And Malfurion… god he’s just such a wallflower. I guess he was like the first Druid so it makes sense but he’s just such a boring character. And a particularly horrible brother(though Illidan isn’t much better). He seemed a bit interesting and vengeful in the cinematic, but that’s missing ingame.
I think regardless of the lore, this is the bottom line. I pretty much agree. That means yes, I hope the Belves lose Silvermoon too.
You call it entitlement, but the longer the Night elves wait, the worse the situation becomes because the Horde is purposefully destroying the forest. They are working to ensure that nothing remains of it, and that the land is blighted forever by their presence. Not to mention the defilement of corpses.
Furthermore, the thought that the Alliance cannot spare the manpower is laughable, considering what they’re spending efforts fighting are the Zandalari and the Horde in Stromgarde. The Zandalari, whose only threat to the Alliance was their navy, which could have been destroyed at any time, and the Horde in Stromgarde, which is equally as selfish as the Night elves wanting to reclaim their territories.
To be fair, as much as I want to justify the Warfront in Stromgarde as somehow being important to the Alliance, the reality is, not helping the Kaldorei first and foremost really does feel like the Alliance is letting the Night Elves down.
I understand the tactical advantage of breaking the Horde’s power over the Eastern Kingdoms. It diminishes resources and secures the heartland of the Alliance. That said, the Heartland of the Alliance is ALREADY secured. There really aren’t Horde forces in the Southern Eastern Kingdoms. Attacking the Northern end of the Eastern Kingdoms doesn’t do much more than cement the gains made in the attempt to capture/kill Sylvanas.
I can only try to justify the whole madness as finishing what one started, but that still doesn’t make sense. The Alliance would have to write Kalimdor off as hopeless which is blatantly stupid.
To everyone saying that the Kaldorei losing in Darkshore is better for faction conflict, you clearly haven’t thought about WoT and Cataclysm. Kaldorei staying in Kalimdor is their best way to stir up more faction conflict.
No need to “holding hands”.
Even your example of “Cold War” would go against this since what was stirring the conflict was the proximity of opposed parties such as in Europe or with Cuba.
Moreover, losing its homeland is very redundant in this game with the Gnomes, Trolls, Goblins, Orcs, Draenei and Gilneans.
Three passages from A Good War I’d like you to factor:
On Page 17:
Sylvanas Windrunner took a deep breath and then hissed it out in frustration. “If we have no other options, I will handle them myself.”
Saurfang said nothing for a while. It was a bad idea, but at the moment, it was the best one they had.
Saurfang and Sylvanas had discussed strategy and tactics for days, and it had become clear that there were two huge, inescapable points of failure in their plan: Malfurion Stormrage and Tyrande Whisperwind. The leaders of the night elves were powerful, dangerous, and perhaps even unbeatable on the field of battle. No matter how surprised the kaldorei would be by this attack, those two would be a terror for the Horde once the fighting began. They had lived for so long, and survived so much, that Saurfang had to consider the possibility that they could hold off the Horde long enough for the Alliance to send help. Ashenvale was their land, after all. They would rally nature itself to their cause.
Sylvanas could match one of them—perhaps—but even she knew that taking them on by herself was . . . not an ideal tactic.
On Page 20:
Tyrande Whisperwind was planning to remain in Stormwind for weeks to construct a long‐term strategy for dealing with the Horde’s strange movements. She had already left Darnassus. It was the perfect time to strike.
But for some reason, the warchief was hesitating.
“You wanted to launch the attack in three weeks, High Overlord,” she said.
“That was when I believed we needed to handle Tyrande and Malfurion. Now we only need to contain one of them,” he replied. “We’ll have a few less soldiers ready for the fight, but we’ll still outnumber the night elves—eight‐to‐one instead of twelve‐to‐one.”
On Page 45:
Malfurion struck hard all across the Horde’s lines, killing those foolish enough to charge into battle with him. When the final numbers were tallied, there would be more slain Horde than kaldorei.
But Saurfang had anticipated that. He didn’t like it, but when you threatened an enemy’s home and invaded their land, you paid a certain price.
Both Malfurion and Tyrande are fighting for Darkshore now. And Sylvanas isn’t there. By the Horde’s own calculations, the Horde probably can’t win Darkshore.
The cinematic plays out in game both during the Alliance side in the quest “In Darkest Night” and the Horde quest “Aftermath.”
But the goal isn’t to escalate faction conflict, it’s to “end” it, even though we know it isn’t gonna end. Keeping the Night Elves in Kalimdor results in the the actions made during BfA becoming just another day of Horde punch Nelf instead of showing an actual impact on Night Elves, and the world in general.
And the potential for land loss for Night Elves plus the Forsaken, and possibly even Blood Elves and Draenei if Blizz really wants to put in the extra effort, could be a new world Revamp giving us new faction hubs. Maybe the Night Elves and Gileans spruce up the remains of Gilneas or Lordaeran to become a real city for the Alliance, while the Forsaken + Goblins can expand the facilities they made in Darkshore into the husk of of Teldrassil as well.
We are seeing the world revamps right now, that is to say, Blizzard only does revamps now if it serves a gameplay purpose, i.e. warfronts and world quests. They won’t be giving us new faction hubs that are not in service of any gameplay.
To be honest, I’m not opposed to the Night Elves building a settlement in the Eastern Kingdoms. I’d love to see them wipe out the Forest Trolls in the Hinterlands and build a magnificent city over Jintha’alor. Slap a Cenarion Village in Seradane for good measure. Maybe replace Revantusk Village with a Kaldorei fishing village or, even better, an actual port.
I just wouldn’t want any of the above to come at the cost of Kalimdor. It’s heavily tied into the identity of the Night Elves. I’d rather the Night Elves left the Alliance and became neutral to keep their lands (assuming the Horde agrees to leave them alone in exchange for that).
Until next expac, if those any of those “Void lords come to Azeroth to fork up everything” theories become true. Or maybe something like what was discussed in Worldbuilding: Orc Farms Over Old Gods
Actually no. Keeping the Night Elves in Kalimdor means the Night elves can actually WIN against the horde for a change without the big, strong, human-lead Alliance coming in to rescue them like damsels in distress.
Throwing them in a Not-England ghetto just takes what little uniqueness they have left, grinding them down in replacement high elves that high elf fans can reject. I’m tired of every race in the alliance being indebted and completely reliant on Stormwind to do anything while reinforcing Stormwind’s stranglehold on anything Alliance-related.
A win that will come at the cost of the Horde’s efforts in Teldrassil in the first place, and doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense in reclaiming considering the bulk of the Horde’s troops could just roll in there to do the same thing again. Elune juice didn’t stop Nathanos from rezzing a portion of Night Elves into new Dark Rangers for Horde after all.
You say this, but I feel like the Night Elves will only grow closer to the Gileans rather than be indebted to them. -Scrap the Lordaeron idea, since I only said mentioned it to parallel the Forsaken taking over Darkshore-
If the Night Elves and the Gileans were to work together in rebuilding Gileans, I could see the place becoming a large, lively version of Black Rook Hold with more druidy stuff scattered around as well.
Stormwind doesn’t have to be involved at all, and if anyone were to be indebted to someone else, it’d the the Worgen to the Night Elves. Revamping Gilneas as a Night Elf + Worgen hub should lead to the Nightelves having more influence over the Alliance since Genn could start pushing Anduin to give more aid for the Night Elves on assaulting a Forsaken+Goblin controlled Teld/Darkshore.
As far as we know, the night elves still hold Ashenvale and Winterspring, and possibly Hyjal. Them losing Darkshore would suck, because it would be the third kaldorei zone canonically given to the Horde, but it wouldn’t drive them from Kalimdor completely. The Horde would need to muster some massive level of effort to push them from the entirety of Kalimdor, especially since they’re struggling to hold Darkshore alone.
That said, as we’ve seen the last time there was a Horde/Alliance war like this, it could be very likely that as part of the ‘peace’ initiative at the end of all this, the Horde is yet again gifted night elf lands. This would leave the draenei and the blood elves completely alone on the respective continents, however, and there are still night elf holdings in Feralas as well.
The only way we get a Horde only Kalimdor and an Alliance only Eastern Kingdoms is if the Horde managed to completely oust the kaldorei from their own forests as well as go after the draenei and send them packing as well. The draenei are pretty weakened from the last battle against the Legion, but they’re not pushovers, and the kaldorei were able to hold off the entire might of the Horde for several days with a skeleton crew of forces. The Horde would need a deus ex machina beyond anything ever seen before to accomplish that.
Not to mention the fact that Kalimdor is home to many Wild Gods, who probably wouldn’t be too keen on living beings getting pushed out of land for the sake of undead who don’t even need it.
