We actually already know this, because someone leaked concepts of the Jailer and the Shadowlands teaser was very plainly not Zovaal. Both are actually more reminiscent of Primus iterations, which is partly what fueled the huge theory that The Primus was the intended villain (the theory that remains the sole thread that could have tied Shadowlands into a cohesive narrative).
Edit: just to go a step further, in an interview I can’t for the life of me find, iirc Danuser was gushing over how he and another writer sequestered themselves in a room and came up with all the new cosmic lore stuff (including Titan perspective/unreliable narrator).
Again, they left those points open to quite literally anything so they could tie it up later with whatever they came up with. I’m saying they didn’t have Zovaal as we were given by then. It was this nebulous figure doing something from somewhere. When you have a description this vague literally anything can fit. And why you’d defend that atrocity is beyond me.
Have you played the story? It stinks of half-assed work. They might have not scrapped ALL of it and started from scratch but I doubt what we got was the fully intentional path.
Yeah I remember that, the shadowy design with a crown of spikes was so much better than bald nipple man. Talk about a downgrade.
So they were doing blue math while coming up with canon lore, got it. It explains a lot, actually.
You aren’t reading. I have said the Main Arc was set. Regarding Zovaal in Legion I said:
“At that time, Zovaal was probably pretty nebulous.”
I never said “fully fleshed out.”
What I have said is during BfA they knew enough about what he was doing to establish Sylvanas was working for him, killing everyone in Teldrassil was his goal because he needed the souls, and that Sylvanas was going to join him in Shadowlands. Probably even quite a bit more details. But the important part, the part some people think was a retcon/reframe of Sylvanas motives at Teldrassil was known. Sylvanas motives for burning the tree were not changed.
First off, that is graphic design. Not story boarding.
Second off, when were they from? The initial concept designs could have been made far earlier than any of us know.
And looking like the Primus means what? Blizzard reuses concept designs all the time. They built an entire game off of carrying over some scrapped concepts from a previous game (Titan > Overwatch). There is a good chance the Primus design was inspired by rejected concept art for Zovaal. Or they might look similar because ‘powerful death being’ would tend to have similar art come back from artists.
That may have been what they were thinking at the time of Legion’s release. In fact that would fit. They have told us they start story boarding two expac ahead. So, at legion release they would have been doing rough story boards for SL. But by the time BfA was being released they would have already started actual work on Shadowlands and would have known the main beats.
You think during all the turmoil, and with the pandemic, that Blizzard didn’t even start work on Shadowlands story, let alone expansion design, until halfway through BfA? Really?! You think Blizzard wrote SL story, did the art and assets, finished the high quality Saurfang cinematics (that they changed the story on midway through), put together the questing, got all the voice acting done, designed the raids, etc., etc. in less than one year. You apparently think Blizzard is MUCH faster and more organized than we have any indication of.
Again, just because you didn’t know what they had planned does not mean they didn’t.
You doubt.
Really this narrative you are pushing really just looks like you had some wrong theories and rather than admit you didn’t have it all figured you decided Blizzard just changed things.
I don’t think you understand that they ARE different. Story boarding does inform art design. Which is why it is done first. By the time the art was started they would have known the main beats. They would have known Sylvanas was going to be serving him and he was going to be collecting souls.
And again, when was the art actually done? You don’t know. Those concept art could be from concept pitches a decade before Shadowlands. Kind of like how the concept of the Dragon Isles dates back to Vanilla.
The Creative Lead was ousted without leaving a clear outline of where his master plan was headed. It isn’t a coincidence this resulted in the most disliked and disjointed expac to date.
Yes, and just because you think they did doesn’t mean they actually did as well. We don’t have a precise insight on what happened during that mess, we just keep speculating in circles.
I had speculation, much like everyone else. I like being right, but I don’t mind being proven wrong. What I mind is garbage writing.
And which one is first? I don’t think you understand how different they are because you seem to think that the existence of concept art (without a date) somehow proves they didn’t know the main arc of Shadowlands by the time BfA was released.
Even if we assume the concept art happened in BfA, which again we cannot assume, it still doesn’t mean they didn’t know what they were doing before BfA.
Cool. You were wrong. Blizzard proved that.
And that is not an insult. It is pretty safe to say at least most people were wrong.
And that is fine too. I have no issue with you saying you hated SL writing. That is not the problem. Saying it was not started until Blizzard changed their minds halfway through BfA is just wrong.
Honestly this whole ‘It was bad’ = ‘Blizzard didn’t start it till a year out’ is just crazy. Time wasn’t the issue. They could have worked on it for 10 years and had it still end up bad.
You used concept art being different than the final model as proof they started late. That means you think there is some connection that concept art somehow proves time of storyboarding. (Again, ignoring the lack of date on art.)
But if you are agreeing that concept art and story boarding are separate, we can just ignore you putting him looking different in concept art as a support for the claim of a late story writing. And we can move forward.
I think making Sylvanas be in league with Super Satan did NOT happen until 8.2, yes. They knew they want to go to the afterlife, that there would be competing factions we would meet, and that we would face off against a Super Satan who wanted to destroy Azeroth. But Sylvanas deciding to commit omnicide to “remake the universe” I firmly believe was not something they decided on until halfway through BFA.
If you dont know the difference between war and genocide that’s sad. Because it is a real world concept. It shows not just a lack of understanding of a game, but of the world around you. Sad.
These weren’t young soldiers these were literally neonates to 8 year olds to 14 year olds. The elderly, the infirm
Didn’t even read your full reply. You clearly don’t understand not only the game, but the real world around you.
To do what you are saying would have required them to do everything from storyboarding on after 8.2. Nothing else could have been done before storyboarding. So all the other stuff has to happen after. That includes concept art going to digital asset creation, rendering, animating. That would also include all quest creation, quest pathing, testing, etc. It would also include all the voice acting, cinematic creation. It would involve raid and dungeon creation. On and on.
That would all have had to happen in 1 year. Do you really think that with all the turmoil going on at Blizzard, plus a pandemic, that there was any chance that could have happened? Something they have never been able to do in better times.
Be honest here. That was NEVER something Blizzard could have done.
In the first map we can see the grand expanse of four troll empires. We can also see what land the Dark Trolls migrated to.
PAGE 94
In the first image, we see how Cenarius guided the night elves as a people. How they embraced nature and are basically the perfect hippies for “many centuries.” No wars.
In time night elves discovered that the Elune-Blessed Titan Blood that digivolved them from trolls into night elves could give them super magic. And so, the Highborn evolve and with them cometh Queen Azshara, Lord of Dabbing.
PAGE 95
Queen Azshara held the most coveted traits of her people. The lowborne adored her, even if they hated the highborne. It is in this time that the nelven empire begins expanding its borders via PAX NELFANA and taking lands as their own. This happens before Troll combat is ever mentioned.
During this moment, Cenarius watched with growing unease as her empire expanded. Lowborne still loved nature, but they agreed with Azshara: She believed her race superior to all others. Her people, including the lowborne, were rife with xenophobia.
Map 2 Before we even read about troll combat, we’re shown Azshara’s designs on the world: It is her world, and trolls are, at best, guests upon it. They were intent on taking land, and were taking land, and the trolls reacted to invasion into their homelands.
PAGE 96
The first mention of “troll aggression” comes after PAX NELFANA initiates. Azshara didn’t care. She charges the Zandalari with policing all other trolls to stop them from invading “nelven territory” (see: MAPS 1 & 2). The Zandalari agree purely because they know they cannot survive PAX NELFANA if they decline: they will be killed.
With the Zandalari enslaved to police the other trolls and keep them in line, Azshara continued expanding her empire.
yeah, shadowlands definitely didn’t give the vibe of a story cobbled together at the last second. korthia for sure seemed like something they had planned out well in advance. also,
i mean the episode of ‘foreshadowing’ which you’re grasping at really doesn’t have anything to do with a ‘higher power’ because sylvanas had ‘higher power.’ the interpretation that sylvanas’ strength came from a pact was obviously just as speculative at the time as any other interpretation*; nobody really came to that conclusion. because, you know, it wasn’t actually foreshadowing the jailer.