No, I’m saying that is probably one reason why people complained less about the faction war in MoP. There are also the facts that it was better written and that it was the first time they focused that much of an expansion around faction war, so it was at least something new.
Not exactly. My argument is “Faction war in WoW has never been handled well and Blizzard has proven they can’t be trusted with that kind of storyline.”
All I can say is that I played through both expansions, disliked the faction war in both expansions, and had the opposite experience.
How do you explain that? I don’t buy the idea that I’ve just forgotten all the faction war stuff in MoP because I just replayed it during Remix.
Blizzard’s psychology regarding overworld content and side content and war tables changed from MoP to BfA. The features they implemented made a lot of stuff that could easily be ignored feel mandatory. Slowly, over time, they tried to make leveling easier but still wanted to flood the game with things to do that would keep people subbed. They time gated so much and locked things behind quests that would only refresh so often, that feeling like you were somehow restricted from content felt like a punishment. You HAD to have access to the maximum number of world quests or you would fall behind. You had to have the wow companion app to do all your wartable stuff at work. You had to do warzones. You had to do this, and you had to do that. But you didn’t. Not really. Maybe if you were a top tier raider, idk. But most of us aren’t and that’s ok. And since most of us aren’t, that means most of us don’t hate BfA, just because there was too much faction conflict.
The psychology blizzard employed in BfA (and prior) was anxiety inducing. Not so much in MoP.
I dunno, the only thing on that list that I did was world quests, and it wasn’t so much that I felt like I had to have the max available to keep up, but rather that only having access to half of them severely limited the selection of content. Let’s not forget that even if you didn’t establish warbases on the opposing island, you still got incursions on your own island, which take up a good number of the available slots.
I never really bothered with the war table, and I only tried out the warzones once each. Deeply regretted even trying the Darkshore one and only did it because a friend pressured me into going along on a run. So the feeling that faction war conflict was hard to avoid wasn’t caused by the time-gating of warzones or faction table missions.
However, I definitely agree with you that Blizzard’s approach to content design changed between MoP and BfA.
I will concede that (while not your specific case) for a lot of people…
Blizzard’s decision not to make Warzones PvP content, opting instead to make them PvE content (which seems to have been a shift from the original design philosophy) was a bad idea. While there was a lot of faction war content in MoP a lot of it was PvP content and therefore optional, if you enjoy PvP. While choosing to make Warzones PvE seems on the surface to be more inclusive-- psychologically, it makes that content feel mandatory.
I cite Dr. Bartle’s “taxonomy of players” a lot, but Blizzard devs need to return to that genre defining text because it regularly can be leveraged to analyze their mistakes. The “collector” can be interested in PvP, but it’s not a defining feature of the player archetype like it is for the “killer” and to an extent the “explorer”. The collector wants the things and needs the things. The collector is happy to buy the things and doesn’t need to “earn” the things for content, but it’s a bonus if those things are rare or exclusive. The collectors (and to an extent the socializers) are among the most vocal critics of the faction conflict because it stands in the way of their collection. It gives them less opportunities to group up to complete group content to collect rewards. By making the rewards for Warzones mostly cosmetic (something people have been ignorantly asking to be done for PvP rewards for a long time) they made that content feel mandatory for the collector. Realizing this, they made that conflict PvE, and time gated… Basically making that content feel even more mandatory, instead of leaving some of the most heavy handed “faction conflict” content in PvP where it belongs.
I could go on and on about how “Killers” and counter-intuitively “socializers” are the most interested in faction conflict, and how the faction conflict ties them all together but I think everyone can agree the way BfA handled faction conflict sucked. It’s just that the psychological reasons behind that aren’t as obvious as one might think.
As an Alliance fan I don’t really care about Sylwaifu returning back. I always hated how everything bad horde did since Legion (and really, since Cataclysm or even Classic as far as Eastern Kingdoms horde activities go) was piled up on her as the sole responsible person.
At best we might get some faction tension from her return (I doubt this), at worst I will have to endure another brainrot quipping character like Illidan in Legion. As long as there’s no faction conflict I don’t take the story seriously anyway.
Honestly, I find that comment odd, because she basically looks like a human death knight who happens to wear cloth for some reason.
The fact that she doesn’t feel like a Forsaken is a bigger issue for me. Not sure I’d call myself a Forsaken fan, exactly, but it bugs me a lot that their lore was retconned so hard. So maybe that counts.
I can acknowledge your point and agree that yes, Sylvanas’s design lacks discernable traits that are common to the undead, and when she wanted to bring her lover into the spotlight with her, he was similarly given a body that lacked those traits. Not to mention that Blizzard loves its Death Knights whose only visual indication from the living is gaseous eyes and a slight adjustment to its skin tones.
However, as a counterpoint, I must insist that this quality is easily overlooked by the fact that Sylvanas was there from the inception of the Forsaken. She wasn’t brought in to replace the ghost of Terenas Menethil for instance—she was always the conceptual leader, both in design and in spirit. Her armor was adorned in icons of death like skulls and spikes, and had a gloomy pallet of purples, blacks and silver.
Contrast this with Calia, whose outfit is white and gold, with black accents, and is resplendent with jewels, lacking anything that would even give a viewer a visual reference to undeath. Put her on a billboard and I dare you to find me a single layperson who sees her and identifies her as an undead and not an angelic being.
It’s not a small thing, leaders should look like they represent those that follow them. For some races, such as the Void Elves, having a distinct character representing them front and center in the storyline is just about the only attention they’ll get from these writers who typically don’t see a point in including more than one voice for any group. It’s why the whole “Horde and Forsaken Councils” haven’t amounted to much of anything beyond having extra people stand around silently in the background while one character speaks.
Perhaps it is pedantic of individuals such as myself to ask for a more acceptable visual correlation for our representatives in the narrative.
Mostly, I know that my arguments won’t amount to anything, because I’m just one person, but we have seen character models change again and again in the game, when they go through some sort of development. So I’ll continue to argue in favor of a change of clothes, because Thrall has gone through four changes of outfit throughout Warcraft’s lifespan, so it’s not an impossible ask.
That said, you’re right that the majority of outspoken Forsaken fans would be just as happy with Calia’s demeanor changing to fit in better with her people. It’s easier to write her eating someone’s face after they insult her, than it is to build her a whole new model and rig. So if she behaved more like a monster, it would easily make up for her garish appearance. Might even enhance it due to the rule of false innocence if used sparingly enough that the effect is all the more terrifying when it happens.
But it’s such a long-shot when her personality is blander than a vanilla wafer, and a carbon copy of Anduin, pre-Shadowlands. She has no teeth, no claws, no threat in her voice. She’s not even a silly Tim-Burtonesque undead, because despite them always being portrayed as normal people and not monsters, they’re still capable of monstrous or demented behavior when they want to.
The only way Calia’s gonna fight for me is if I push her into the danger’s grasp, and she buys me a few minutes so I can drink an elixir and watch.
There is a great irony (to me, anyway) in that Thrall is trying to have a heart to heart with Anduin about their shared issues (basically losing faith in themselves, to oversimplify things). Thrall is heading into his 5th expansion without that inner turmoil being resolved, while Anduin shows up and resolves his issue in the same patch that his problem is introduced. Thrall over here just slowly putting on more and more of Orgrimm’s Doomplate. Maybe when he finally gets around to picking up the Doomhammer again he’ll have it worked out. Maybe.
One version of Sylvanas I could get down with post return would be exiled leader of a a group of paramilitary black ops mercs.
Little Lion! How I do miss our little visits. I’ve heard all about your little problem with the new Scarlet Crusade. Let me guess, they need to be dealt with, but sending in Stormwind forces would start a civil war? If only there was a villainous Banshee Queen on the loose, with an army of covert undead and a stockpile of biological weapons…
Why does it sound like Sylvanas is flirting with Anduin?
Your description of Sylvanas indicates she hasn’t changed at all since BFA. Turning her into neutral NPC would make repentance in the Maw irrelevant. If she comes back with this attitude and worldview I won’t be surprised if she become a piñata full of loots soon again.
Blizzard won’t risk the return of this personality if she come back on Azeroth. The only way to keep the “old” Sylvanas and not upset a huge number of players is to leave her in SL. Seriously, Revendreth is the perfect place for her, This is the only place where she could retain her somewhat darker side.
Honestly, the only risk is bringing back the new Sylvanas. People LOVED the old Sylvanas. People who didn’t, will both not like the new Sylvanas and will be mad about her return either way. Her existence angering people is not necessarily bad for the game.
If you bring her back, you bring her back for fans. Cold, sarcastic, clever, brutal Sylvanas is the only one anyone wants back.
And this is the biggest problem. Both groups are quite large and no matter what Sylvanas we get, there will be a riot. But with this strange new lore about divided souls… Uniting her with Ranger General, it’s almost certain that she will not come back the same
That’s why I say don’t touch her anymore. She got more lore than any other character. It’s time for a new heroes. I don’t want Midnight about her heroic return and saving Quel’thalas. I want Liandrin and Lor’themar to do this.
You aren’t wrong in any case here. But if they were smart enough to bring her back as the Banshee Queen, there will be half as many angry people as there otherwise would be. If they bring back the ranger general, you’re looking at upwards of 100% anger. If you bring back the Banshee Queen you at least have happy BQ fans.
Pretty sure Sylvanas fans don’t want to see her join the Alliance either.
Edit: Also, Lor’themar is garbage. He’s such trash. He’s like the person who does all the stuff that the rebels get expelled for, then goes “If they didn’t want to get in trouble they shouldn’t have been doing that stuff” but also it’s secretly because he’s racist and his crush got with someone from another race.
