I’m super worried that the first couple of raids will be ‘Looking for Raid’ level easy due to 1.12 class talents + buffed itemization of gear. I know MC/Onyxia/Black Wing Lair were easy, but this makes them ridiculously easy.
Any chance the devs will either revert the itemization, or adjust the damage of level 60 content for the first couple of raids to account for 1.12 talents + buffed itemization? I just want a blizzlike experience for level 60 fresh content ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
No one really know’s. I made a post about this earlyier today.
Did you guys not read the blue post from today? They’re doing progressive itemization and dire maul won’t be in at launch. Now can we please shut up about “MC will be LFR easy”. They could release everything as 1.1 and keep it that way until rag dies and he will still be dead in a month. Gear and gold are the only things that ever made MC “hard” and you used the gold to bypass the gear (whether through BoE drops or consumables).
We aren’t talking about that though, we are talking about the stat’s themselves, personally i don’t think diremaul has as much effect on people zerging mc as others.
If they used 1.1 talents, class design, and the entire 9 yards i don’t think you understand what would be involved. In 1.1 there was various greens that didn’t even exist the same way. there was “wrath” gear missing that increased spell damage. I don’t even think that Band of the Unicorn was in the game which is the go-to for caster dps for rings. there was fights in MC that even with the best crap you could get might just be a wipe due to healers going oom because the 1.1 talents and class design was not exactly mana friendly.
Not really. We’re still getting 1.12 gear. Reread what Kaivex said:
Along the way, we’ve taken a close look at items that provide the biggest power gains, many of which were introduced in 1.10 as part of a sweeping dungeon itemization pass. That patch was when Tier 0.5 gear was introduced, and Relics were added to the drop tables of many bosses. It also adjusted drop rates and drop locations of a lot of gear (to make room for the Relics). We’ve gone back and reconstructed many of the most heavily affected drop tables as they existed prior to the 1.10 patch, and we’re planning to update the drop tables alongside the Ahn’Qiraj War Effort. Prior to the Ahn’Qiraj unlock, most of the drop rates and locations will look as they did in the patches prior to 1.10, with exceptions—there are lots of little changes made in earlier patches that don’t have a big effect on player power, and in those cases, we’re planning to use the 1.12 drop rates and locations.
Pretty clear implication that they’re redoing the itemization since he specifically referenced the power gains from those items that got buffed.
Just off the top of my head: 2000 mana flask, nightfin soup, scrolls to increase spirit/int (not sure if int will stack with arcane int or not), paladins judge wisdom and when a healer goes oom they wand while another healer takes over ( or healer rotations like from everquest) . Drop some dps slots for more healers (I dont recall vanilla having enrage timers so TTK doesn’t matter), and be super aggressive with mana pots (as in as soon as the CD is up & you’re missing more mana than the pot will recover at max value you drink). Wont be pretty or fast but it’d more than likely work
Exactly! People who never played MC at launch who’s only experience is either late in Vanilla or private servers think MC was easy.
Mechanically, yes, it’s very easy. But not NEARLY as easy as buffed itemization + 1.12 class talents.
I read it well be getting a hybrid itemization. I think they’ll be looking at the really OP dungeon items and adjusting those. It’s not very clear what he exactly meant regarding the dungeon gear though. There’s only out one way to find out! And that’ll be this summer!!!
MC will be easy regardless even if it’s 1.1 talents and gear. People know what to do. However, what it will take is more time. And time compounds everything. Rag dead in a month given 1.1? No way. Early MC, DPS needed FR also. This means that a large portion of your DPS needed that Ony Cloak until a critical mass, otherwise the healers would OOM.
The month thing was a gut reaction, not a number crunched time frame, my apologies.
What I was trying to convey is that under no circumstance will clearing MC be as difficult as some people want. It really feels like there’s 2 camps of people, those who think MC is less difficult than zul’farrak and want it adjusted to be something on par with black temple (exaggerating but you get the point) and those who think it’s already that hard.
I just want MC to be MC and think this whole debate about its difficulty is just BS. Most of the people who did MC didnt clear it until the “MC trivializing gear” was already out so what does it matter if it’s there at launch? They weren’t racing server firsts then, they wont be doing it now either, just enjoy the friggen game.
While you make a good point that things will be quite different, even though they’ll still be ‘Classic’; my goodness do you make it sound quite undesirable.
Even though part of me wonders how bad it might be that early on. While Blizzard was definitely still practicing how to ‘make the game work’ as it were, so were the players.
Yeah I gotcha.
I had this whole post on “time”. I just want things to take a significant amount of time despite being easy. This whole idea of “let’s farm MC for Thunderfury while we raid AQ40 and Naxx” didn’t exist in Vanilla. Because, it took much time. MC is almost one raiding night wasted. It’ll change the guild dynamic as well as BiS.
Seems like we are making this overly complicated to me. Just stick with the 1.12 talents and itemization. Let them focus on the other stuff that matters. This is just extra work and we still end up at the same place regardless.
Trust me bro, u arn’t killing Rag in first month if it was a real 1.1 launch. The only way it happens if you clear everything you can 3 times, hopefully get to rag, and then just use last weeks clear and smash your face into rag for 100 hours straight hoping for luck. You have no idea. MC is in a nerfed state in private servers as well, don’t forget that. I think Nost attempted real MC scaling. I know that Northdale didn’t, i don’t think that the re-launch of Elysium did either.
/eyeroll
Actually, I do have an idea. I was there. My account was created in December '04 and i maintained that sub until a few months into cataclysm. I remember grinding to 60, farming resist gear, getting so frustrated that fire resist wouldn’t drop so I just started collecting shadow resist out of spite (which in hindsight wasn’t a terrible idea).
If you actually experienced 1.1 and you are going to say that rag would die in 1 month then you got hit on the head with a Arcanite Reaper one 2 many times or you are misremembering.
I would not rate it as ever being hard… It was just made too easy by the long litany of changes and updates to the game. That I do believe is the point most people have regarding Molten Core.
After all it’s the first raid you encounter, and it’s not designed to be impossible, but only reasonably challenging to new players.
Point being that via nerfs direct and indirect it went from reasonably challenging to new players (fresh characters) to a little too easy for fresh characters.
FFS I’ve said TWICE (this is the 3rd time) that it was an off the cuff gut check, not a data driven analysis and was said simply as an expression regarding the complete and utter lack of difference that 1.10 itemization and dire maul will have.
Private server heroes are going to no life the game for 10+ hours a day until they down rag and abuse the ever living hell out of consumable stacking. Maybe it wont take 30 days, but I promise you it ain’t gonna take 154 days this time around either.
My point remains that it doesn’t matter what they do with itemization or dire maul it’s going to be harder than private servers think (because the spawn rates of herbs and ore will be a lot slower than on private servers) and easier than others think (because of consumable stacking and better resources regarding specs, BiS lists, voice comms, and strategy videos).
Are we still talking about 1.1 or the 1.11/1.12 hybrid we are getting? Rag will die by week 2 for any serious guild. Leaving DM out until after makes it harder and makes it more authentic. I am not sure what I am even arguing here anymore. Do you want to just be friends?