Why We Shouldn't Win

I am perfectly aware of the likely outcome of this next expansion and as I watched through the playthroughs of Shadowlands I came to a… for what I thought, was an interesting conclusion. So, spoilers and whatnot.

My attempts to write this may come as a bias to a lot of Alliance extremist or to Saurfang loyalist. While I suppose you would guess that my loyally would still stand with Sylvanas Windrunner I will try to remain as objective as I possibly can.

This is not a slam at Blizzard’s writing team either and while I was able to predict a lot of Battle for Azeroth. I was not expecting Sylvanas to rip the Helm of Domination in half, and while I’m not particularly liking where the story is going now. I have this funny feeling that the lore team is going to do something that will surprise me again. But I will likely find if online before I see it in gameplay.

As I watched “The Player” go through the portal to the Maw and confront every kidnapped leader. They seem to all know about the Jailer, but they also seemed to be speaking about Sylvanas quite a lot. Like she was nearby and as I watch the player go from quest to quest I kind of expected her to make an appearance at some point. But she never did.

Sun Tzu said, “If your enemy is near make them believe that you are far away and if your enemy is far away, make them believe that you are near.” “If they are in superior strength evade him.”
Her name is on the back of everyone’s throat and it was likely to me that she would make an appearance, but she never did. I think when she does make an appearance it will be when we least expect it. When the Jailer forces seem in disorder, that’s when she will make a appearance and make her plans known.

As I watched the cinematics for Shadowlands I noticed that it seemed that everyone regardless of faction would get to choose some kind of loyalty covenant, as soon as the player escapes the Maw. Now these aren’t like class halls where we team up with different specialist of our fields. These are gatherings of creatures with very clear morals and core beliefs and they seem to have very little to do with actual gameplay but how your character core values also might align.

In the Art of War Sun Su says, “If his forces are united separate them.” The players are being separated by core values and beliefs and it would seem like to me that there will be some skirmishes and foul play between the covenants. Giving us a false since of victory but also using our resources against each other regardless of faction or class choice.

Sun Tzu said, “The general that makes many calculations before the battle is fought will be victorious, the general that loses a battle makes few plans beforehand. Thus, plans lead to victory.”

But we know that’s not the truth, players are going to get a questline or players are going to get a raid and we will most likely take down the Banshee Queen like that. Will it be a permadeath like Garrosh Hellscream, maybe? Will she escape by leaving a chest of gear without a scratch like Jaina Proudmoore, I don’t know?

I don’t know if the lore team is reading the Art of War when they were writing Sylvanas’s personality. But it doesn’t make since that Sylvanas Windrunner would even put herself in a situation were she could be cornered by 25 raiders or being cornered by a major lore character and executed.

3 Likes

Sun Tzu says a lot of things that don’t apply to you when you can kill literally anything.

21 Likes

Well have fun reveling in your power fantasy then.

1 Like

I think you’re investing way too much into the writers for the game. They’ve literally been using and re-using the same villain story since 2002.

But you’re right, we won’t kill Sylvanas. Oh, we’ll confront her in a raid, sure! But then Tyrande will jump out of the shadows, and the whole raid gets to watch a three-minute cutscene of these two duking it out before Tyrande kills Sylvanas. And then the Dark Warrior power overtakes her and she goes crazy and we have to fight Tyrande.

8 Likes

Good joke, as if the writers would ever get their precious waifu get hurt, let alone by the leader of their most hated race.

The topic itself is just saying that Sylvanas should win so no thanks I’ve defeated titans already, so I should also be able to defeat an undead elf with crazy plot armor

1 Like

With the help of other titans …

Well, that being stated - You didn’t just stroll in solo and pump the titan ezpz. Argus would had made your bones his snappable feeble tooth picks, if not Eonar had hadn’t resurrected you and Sargeras would have ensured more than simply Teldrassil being destroyed if Aman’Thul hadn’t used the wit to utilise the strength from the fall of Argus to entrap Sargeras in a prison made from the latent energies.

It’s the same deal with Arthas, we had the help of Tirion & the countless souls Arthas had absorbed for power that became his very undoing.

3 Likes

this but unironically

11 Likes

This isn’t an intense single player experience. If it were, I’d agree with Perfectia. But strictly because it isn’t, Pigzig is absolutely 100% on the money.

We’re here to win, not to writhe in existential dread.

https://i.imgur.com/98zYvxd.png

6 Likes

It’s likely that the Alliance and Horde will have nothing to do with Sylvanas’ defeat. There’ll be heroes from their sides committed to this fight, but, who’s really putting in the effort are the factions of the Shadowlands, where the natural order is in jeopardy for them.

The only people who’re really winning anything are the home teams.

If anything, I’d wager the situation at home (Azeroth) is going to be cataclysmic. The world’s two biggest superpowers just had two of the bloodiest wars- back to back, at that- since the campaign in Hyjal, and the Scourge is coming back in full force.

If this doesn’t obliterate the armies of the world back to their foundations, I don’t know what will.

But the player experience will almost certainly be one of triumph.

Bold of you to assume she’ll be defeated at all.

1 Like

BFA was MoP 2.0.

She’s going to be an endboss, she will die, and she will be a loot pinata for her bow.

I am willing to put money on this.

4 Likes

I’d bet you one crispy dollar that she’s going to be vindicated and proven to be a strong woman who overcame her slaver, in that Arthas was only Zovaal’s puppet. Not that this in any way redeems Arthas. Just… Zovaal is as guilty as Arthas is, if not more so.

She’s going to beat him and become the most powerful death god and thus the forsaken will keep the dark lady quotes because where they figuratively worshiped her before, they will literally worship her now.

4 Likes

From what we know:

  • She won’t be a raid boss
  • She won’t die
  • She is NOT evil
  • She has a plan

That would be rad as hell.

6 Likes

These were promises made by a person who broke previous promises every step of the way.

I’m not wholly convinced, champ.

I don’t agree, but if nothing else I’m glad you’re going to be pleased.

It’d be the ultimate cringe, to cast a character off that way.

Let me ascend to godhood.

But, after how BFA was written, I suppose I should had expected less.

1 Like

I think we can all agree we’d have liked a different path for Sylvanas than this one. I liked your council idea from the other thread, zombie councils are a cool look. But if it has to be this way and Blizzard are convinced they need to tell this BIG EPIC STORY about Sylvanas, I’d rather it end with something grand and cheesy over a lame-o boss fight like so many other Horde originals - gone out due to the POWER MADNESS.

And after so much performative wailing over Teldrassil, I can’t say the resulting gnashing of teeth holds no appeal. As always, I don’t wish upset on others - but if they’re determined to do it to themselves I’d like for them to have a big, flashing, neon self-flagellation excuse like ‘Sylvanas Was Even A Little Bit Right/Became A God/Is Still Revered’. It’d save them a lot of contortions to find reasons to be mad.

1 Like

oh, big same. I’m completely over placating night elf players after two years of unreasonable posts. But like. I like the Forsaken, but I’m an orc boi. And Blizzard not only destroyed my favorite race’s lore, they used her to no-sell my two favorite characters.

So I lost three times to her in one expansion. To say the least, I’m salty. But not unreasonably so. I don’t want you folks to suffer more bullspit on my account. Idk. I just don’t like the idea of her being rewarded for this. Saurfang’s dead, and I’m not getting him (or my Horde) back.

:man_shrugging:

2 Likes

Why contradict yourself within two sentences?
Considering the level of empathy you have shown towards people who want Teldrassil to matter, I frankly want the opposite of whatever it is you want. I am beyond tired of your ilk.

4 Likes