I honestly don’t think you understand at all.
It still isn’t her job to advocate for the Horde and its races.
It is Thralls job… Saurfang’s job of all people.
“Hey we really screwed up. Like really screwed up. So here is my 5 point plan of why you should give us a chance. PS We are really, really sorry.”
Instead I have to hear that crap from Jaina of all people and its the Horde that is giving me the privilege of helping them. Excuse me what?
Maybe not. But at the very least, I think I understand the themes that Blizzard is playing with. They’re a bit simplistic, but sometimes simple is good. Especially when it comes to forgiveness.
I’d say this is quite accurate.
Meaning no disrespect. A 5 year old can understand Blizzard’s themes.
They are not that nuanced.
No disrespect taken. I was taught some of the most important things when I was 5. I had good parents.
Even admitting he got things wrong was a huge step for Thrall as a character. He has never admitted that before, though it has been long suspect it is why he put himself into self imposed exile. On top of that admitting without Jaina’s help Baine would of 100% died. Orcs are an incredibly proud race, and loath admitting they need(ed) help.
Jaina has come full circle, yet is now older and wiser. She will not launch herself blindly towards peace, but in her own words:
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Sometimes… sometimes there’s no way to save everyone.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: But we do the best we can… and we never give up hope.
She has simply come to terms with her own ghosts to a point she can apply that same logic to everyone.
Wow talk about entitlement.
I don’t think there’s going to be an answer that satisfies you op.
See? Pretty simple right? All I need to hear is the Horde actually owning up to their mistakes, actually apologize and explain to me why I should help them as the viewer but it seems even that is too much to ask for.
Which Sylvie , if she is allied with our good old tentacly buddy, helped orchestrate. ![:octopus:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/octopus.png?v=6" ":octopus:")
You know…Thrall being raised by humans wasn’t a good thing. He was raised by one of the worst examples of Humans ever…who murdered his best friend and someone who he viewed as an adoptave sister. I’m not sure why this keeps being brought up. He turned out good despite his upbringing.
I suppose then the easiest way to put it is: Jaina isn’t you. She’s not coming from the same place as you, and she’s not moving in the same direction as you. She wants something different.
She went in there to save a friend who had proven himself to be a friend despite everything. Her mistakes almost stopped her from saving that friend. And then, she’s approached by another friend that she thought she had lost, and he comes in with nothing more than an apology and a thank you. In the end, Jaina got 2 friends back for the price of one.
Forgive me for presuming your motivations, but I don’t think you went in there for a friend. Jaina did. Therefore, her reactions will be different than yours.
That is fine.
I think it is a gross character reversal from the last cinematic though but the role of these cinematics is to communicate to the player the next steps.
My next steps is apparently to drop what I am doing and help Baine, Saurfang and Thrall.
The cinematic gave me no reason as to why I should.
Honest question here, but where do you see this reflected in the game?
Because literally all I’ve seen since Wrath has been “Horde are provoking the Alliance! Horde have done X, Y, and Z! Vol’jin’s sick of the Horde because they’re so evil, Saurfang’s sick of the Horde because they’re so evil, Thrall is sick of the Horde because they’re so evil, and now the PC is so sick of the Horde because they’re so evil!” It reaches a point where killing Horde is so dang fun from a gameplay perspective, even the Horde PC is invited (I.E. forced) to join in on it.
I have never once seen anything saying Alliance killing Horde is wrong. Only encouragement for the Horde to get in on the “fun new gameplay” of killing Horde. I’d really like to find a place where that isn’t the case.
It’s pretty sad when we spend more of our war campaign killing other Horde than Alliance… there’s some “faction pride” for you lul
I think the most obvious cases are the constant cases of Jaina, Andiun and other NPCs telling me to tread carefully, stand together, there is a peaceful solution and all that nonsense.
Teldrassil was still burning and Andiun was already saying “Sylvanas took the Horde to a place of no honor”
Or at battle of Dazaralor they kept telling us “no civilians”, “press the attack?! Are you mental? Look how sad the trolls are!”
The whole thing is a guilt a trip.
Meanwhile the Horde side does not care at all. All the NPCs are so motivated to kill Alliance. It is so refreshing. Finally, someone encourages me to kill the enemy rather than cuddle them.
Its like death with a thousand tiny cuts. Lost Honour cinematic with Andiun crying for help was another one.
fingergun wink!
Yup, it would make a lot of sense really.
Ok, but that’s not saying killing Horde is bad at all.
I mean, that’s not only not saying don’t kill Horde, it’s saying “don’t be a war criminal while killing Horde.” As a Horde player, I’m actually jealous that you guys get to fight your enemies without an actual guilt trip. Instead, you get to keep clean hands because nannies remind you that clean hands are protagonist hands.
That’s only true if you never do quests as Horde. Every odd “kill X Alliance” quest comes with an NPC telling you how wrong this is. Hell, even when the Alliance is attacking the Horde, you usually get someone telling you as a Horde player that you have this coming.
But that’s also not saying “killing Horde is bad”. Hell, Anduin even has Saurfang talking about how crappy the Horde is.
All these examples are not saying killing Horde is wrong. At best, it’s saying “don’t be a monster while exacting righteous vengeance against the Horde.” I’ll hapily trade.
Really? What I understand from it is that this is all Sylvanas’ fault rather than the Horde. I hold the entire Horde as my enemy not just Sylvanas.
Grass greener on the other side I guess.
I have a Horde toon and I do not feel guilt tripped at all besides one or two questlines or outside material. Otherwise no Horde leader is guilt tripping me for anything.
Its only when I analyze what I am actually doing within the context of the story do I see that “guilt trip” but it is pretty subjective.
Nobody is telling me to feel bad about anything.
Really? I have not seen any. All I get is some random orc or Nathanos telling me “Haha die alliance” and whatnot.
No but again Andiun was talking about how Horde could be good, they have honour, peaceful solution, killing is bad, war is bad and etc…
Maybe thats a better way to word it. My problem is… why should I? Eye for an eye and all.
Ok, that’s fine, you can hold them all as your enemy. But the quote says the Horde’s going bad because of her; it doesn’t say you’re bad for fighting them. It implies the opposite. We the Horde are going bad, so you’ll have to kill us.
Saurfang, Baine, Lor’themar, Thalyssra and Thrall have all talked about how “this is wrong”, regarding the Horde’s actions. All that’s really missing is Gallywix and Talanji of the leaders who have even shown up. I don’t know what Horde quests you’re doing where you haven’t noticed all the leaders are against this, but it can’t be quests in BfA.
Anduin is at best saying what could happen. That’s a far cry from saying “killing Horde is wrong”. He’s wishing it didn’t have to be this way. Which is exactly what Anduin would say.
Be thankful your faction leaders get to remain consistent. I’d love to have that commodity.