It’s so convoluted. I remember back in WoD, it was so fun. Devs have just killed it in BfA. Why not just use SnD followed by AR then KS? I use it but players treat me as a pariah. What gives? I’m only looking to complete N BoD.
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Haven’t played my rogue in a while, but I’m assuming we’re still at the point where taking SnD is a DPS loss compared to taking no talent at all on that row.
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It’s like playing the slot machines except your win rate is much higher lol.
With the right buffs you’re severely helping your team. If you don’t get the right buffs, you’re still good DPS.
With slice, you’re just “good” DPS but no God mode.
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The first version of RTB in legion was fun.
Even if you rolled a single buff it was powerful and fun. Current version of RTB in BFA is weaksauce and again propped up by Alacrity.
SnD definitely has a terrible reputation, enough so that even people who have never played outlaw consider it a joke talent. But sadly, it quite literally is. I won’t try to tell you not to run it, or any talent for that matter, but I can make it clear why it’s treated like trash.
SnD is effectively nerfing yourself, it’s obviously meant to be a smoother alternative to RtB, but lets look deeper than that. There are people who don’t like RtB because of it’s rng, but the spec itself is actually tied to it, and generally speaking, you will actually get more good rolls than bad. But the bast way to compare it to SnD for damage purposes would be to assign each ‘buff’ a value.
Ruthless Precision is the best single buff, if other buffs are considered ‘1 buff’, ruthless could be considered 1.5 buffs, it’s just aggressively better, even more with azerite. I’m generalizing here, but if you take that and assume every other buff is worth 1 buff, with perhaps buried treasure being worth 1/2 a buff, and then compare it to SnD, which would act like a guaranteed 1.5 buff (I rate it so because it’s grand melee but stronger), you run into a huge problem. You can roll more than one buff. Get ruthless and grand melee? That’s worth 2.5 buffs, that entire duration you are performing better than SnD. Consider other combos, even with having to reroll, you will likely surpass the value of SnD on any raid fight.
Even worse, SnD at its best performs as well as RtB, but if you choose to keep RtB, you get a talent. So not only does SnD lose to RtB, but in a raid environment you can pick up alacrity and have RtB and a free 10% haste, blowing SnD out of the water.
I know this went a bit long, but this is the only example of a talent that objectively nerfs you, and because of that, it is seen as absolute trash. So while I’m sorry your favored build isn’t being accepted as viable for normal, understand that SnD has such a huge stigma against it that it might be worthwhile to look to other classes that would play similarly.
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Your memory is faulty. RTB was added in Legion.
It was so good back in WoD that it didn’t even exist yet…
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RtB is the reason I switched mains after 14 years. RtB is a dumpster fire of a skill.
On the rare occasion I hop on my rogue these days I still go with SND just because of the play style. If you like it more, why not play it? It might be a dps loss, but why play with a skill you hate?
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Autoattakk strikes again
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Roll the bones is fun if you know how to use it, like rerollng for a true bearing just before popping adrenaline rush because it will take sooo much time off of your adrenaline rush cool down. Or if there is a lot of damage going out keep up grand melee for the increased leech.
Roll the bones changes your game play depending on the buffs. It’s just frustrating some times when you can’t get what you want
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Rtb feels bad a lot when RNG is not playing on your side, but the alternative is SND and that is just garbage and you could get kicked for using it in outlaw depending on which A hole is in the group.
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I used it through all of Legion and as much of Beta For Azeroth as I could stomach. Knew how to use it, still hated it. The RNG is terrible, and rerolling 8 or 9 times in a row to try to get a good buff or a good buff combo is not fun. It needs some serious reworking if I’m ever going to use it again.
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Statistically and mathematically you literally have less dps over time if you use SnD. That is why icy-veins and other people call slice and dice the “meme” build.
I was a big Rtb hater but after sticking with outlaw/ rtb for about 6 months I quite like it. I switched because I just find sin to be so abysmally boring even though it is the better pvp spec.
Having nice addons makes a huge difference (especially XRoll, CANNOT stress how much this addon has made it funner/ easier to work with).
For pve, 1v1, BGs and World pvp Outlaw and Rtb is just really good. I am still figuring out how to make it work in Arena though… not many guides/ examples of current outlaw pvp content out.
RtB certainly does more damage at max level, but it’s horrid to play, imo. The RNG is hellish. I played it through all of legion and the beginning of BfA before giving up.
I refuse to use RtB, it’s by far the worst ability in game…
It needs to be removed for good!
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I liked outlaw initially because I found the rotation of sin to be boring. But once I realized how to properly play sin I found it’s actually much more engaging. The keys to sin are 1. Get at least 18% haste for energy regen. 2. Keep max bleed/poison uptime on as many mobs as possible (at least 3). This is where it becomes more engaging. Tab targeting and monitoring dots keeps my attention way more than 1 button aoe that comes with the outlaw kit. The only thing I don’t like about sin is if you are forced to open out of stealth it really really hurts.
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I no longer use RtB. The rng is aweful. If they made it so that outlaw was #1 never energy starved (because with certain rolls you will be) and #2 all RtB rolls equally powerful so you didn’t keep having to reroll, it would be a lot better.
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Well, in reality, there will always be a value rating of each talent, so long as they’re all tied to secondary stats, in some way.
However, they could tune the talents to the extent that even the “worst” roll is better to use to its full duration, than simply rerolling in hopes of getting the ideal roll, which boosts your damage so much, that 30-40s of it is worth wasting dozens upon dozens of CP to get it.
Although, that would require having developers who can theorycraft and are mathematically competent, in addition to not being lazy, neither of which are seen at Blizzard games.
Yea, I’m just trying to get invites to raid and M+ current content. Blizzard said a couple years ago at Blizzcon, that we’d be able to pick the rotation we felt comfortable doing and achieve current content completion. They apparently lied. I missed out on AotC ABT and BoD.