Why use RtB?

Classes Rogue
21

Dude RtB feels so bad. I mean I’ll keep using it in the current state of the game because we’re forced to do so but the RNG aspect is ridiculous. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve rolled True Bearing like 5 or 6 times in a row before catching a Grand Melee or Ruthless Precision.

My question though is do you guys really sit there and wait for 4-5 combo points before rerolling if you get a bad roll? If I waited for 4-5 CPs every time then I’d spend actual minutes rerolling on those bad luck moments before I could actually use a dispatch/between the eyes.

1 Like
22

A question I’ve been asking here for ages. There’s never really been a clear answer. If you read the guides, which specifically tell you what rolls to keep, and later tell you specifically that there is never a point where it becomes disadvantageous to keep rerolling for said rolls, you might conclude that the answer is “Yes, that’s what you’re supposed to do.”

But in practice, this is bad DPS. I’ve watched too many fights where I start high on the meter, then dwindle down after every reroll, because without using damage dealing finishers, you’re dealing way less damage.

So now I keep many rolls I previously used to reroll again and again, and just focus on pumping out finishers with at least some buff active. This has been more DPS in my experience than rerolling for a perfect roll.

Frankly, I think this is what most rogues do also. Based on the number of times I group with them and see bones flying around (and how many fewer overall RtB casts details was telling me they had compared to me before I stopped being a reroll junky.) I would start a boss fight and end up throwing bones 8+ times until getting crit or two of something. I’d watch other rogues roll once and go ham and beat me on DPS. Happened way too many times for them to just be getting sick rolls on the first roll. And I had several message me stuff like “Are you just rerolling again and again? Lol.”

Plus, there’s good use of some unpopular ones. I keep a single cooldown reduction buff now, because I find it’s absolutely sick with deeper strategem and three ace talents. Cranking out 125k BtE crits on reduced cooldown? Yes please.

1 Like
23

See, this is what I’m trying to say. Why bother with the complexity of RtB when obviously it sucks because that’s all you ever see other outlaw rogues do is constantly using RtB. Constantly looking for the perfect roll. In the mean time, the most you can expect is 17k to 18k dps. Which won’t even get you a invite to low M+ push.

1 Like
24

Thank you, this is the kind of experience I wanted to hear about. It did seem a little odd to me that the guides just said keep rolling until you get Ruthless, Grand, or 2+ when in reality I could roll so many times in a row without getting that and just be wasting combo point after combo point.

I feel like a solution to that would be to have something like the Mage’s fireball buff that adds a crit chance every time they don’t crit; BUT if they did something like that with rolls then they would clearly be admitting that 4 of the 6 buffs are garbage compared to the other 2, which they will never do.

It does seem pretty obvious in my research of this skill and hearing opinions of the rogue population that this ability severely needs to be reworked. Even the people who love to use it I think would be able to admit that there are times where it can significantly drop damage down to just auto attacks and SS spam essentially.

25

Proper use of the ability is confusing as hell. I’ve been playing my rogue again since BFA launched (my first time using the ability) – it’s now almost a year in. I’m doing end-game competitive content, and I’d be lying if I said I had a good explanation for how to use this skill optimally. It’s absolutely no wonder newer or less experienced rogues struggle with it so much if veteran rogues can’t even agree on how it should be used.

Even the guides keep changing. Now it’s DON’T keep a single grand melee if you’re using ace or deadshot (is any outlaw rogue not using at least one of these? No? Then why even say “keep a single grand melee or ruthless precision or 2+ of anything”? The most recent version of the Ravenholdt guide now also says to keep a single grand melee, or broadsides, (in addition to a single ruthless precision or 2+ of anything) if you’re cleaving.

But, just play with it. There are many effective ways to make the ability work. As I said, I’ve been keeping a single cooldown reduction buff to great effect. And keeping a single grand melee (for the leech) can be quite helpful in packs where you’re taking damage.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they all change more with the essences. Some of these add so much energy regen to outlaw’s playstyle, I was able to give up vigor finally for deeper strategem. And I actually took loaded dice for a single target raid fight over alacrity, stacked some extra base haste, and found it to be pretty sweet if you’re using the essence that activates AR for a period of its base duration. (This also triggers loaded dice, so your next roll is automatically 2+ buffs) – stack in a Brigand’s blitz for more extra haste every time AR goes off, and I wasn’t missing alacrity, and was very much enjoying getting 2+ buffs on almost all my rolls.

2 Likes
27

I just read the Ravenholdt guide which you mentioned. This is new information to me. I haven’t gotten into current content with a Rogue so I’m not sure how their azerite choices look like but do you have to get Ace or Deadshot or is it possible to not pick that trait at all? I feel like I’d rather keep it simpler if I could.

Is it basically saying with those traits you will keep rerolling until you have Ruthless or 2+?

28

Yes, in my experience, you want as many aces or deadshots as you can possibly have, (and one keep your wits about you for multi-target) on your Azerite.

Last season everyone had 3 deadshots. I played the azerite lottery for the whole season and could never get a piece that could give me a third deadshot and wits (you need a piece of azerite that has both wits and deadshot, on different tiers, to do this), so I ended up using 2x deadshot and 1x ace.

Bought a fresh set of 430 Azerite last week and got one deadshot, so went with three aces this time around. It’s pretty good. I’d call it an acceptable substitute. And it puts out better single target damage than the previous talent builds I’ve tried.

Yes, if I understand it correctly, if you’re using at least one ace or deadshot, the only single buff you’d keep is crit. Presumably this means for single target fights or between blade flurry charges or something, because it also says to keep a single grand melee, ruthless precision, or broadsides when you’ve got blade flurry up.

EDIT:

Check out bloodmallet dotcom. That’s a good place to get DPS comparisons for azerite traits, essences, and so on. Looks like ace is simming higher than deadshot. Pretty sure that’s new.

29

I wish snd was baseline and rtb was the talent

1 Like
30

I’ve never heard of these dead shots, I’ve heard of pistol shot that I use very often. And what are these aces you speak of? You’re evidently talking about an entirely different class. This is rogue forum.

31

They’re azerite traits, man. There’s no way you’ve made it this far into the expansion without knowing that.

32

I can’t believe people still fall for his trolling :joy:

1 Like
33

believe it or not but during bfa prepatch snd plus mastery build was eating faces.
#prepatch