Well you should cite your claim, then, because we know that Azshara destroyed both fleets.
No it doesn’t. You cut out the exact explanation for the scene because it defeats your argument soundly. Let me re-add it for emphasis.
Baine believes they have the resources to host guests. Feed them, give them water. He just doesn’t want to allow a race in the Horde that won’t add resources to the whole while demanding support for their homelands.
~https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Missing_Crew_(Alliance)
I can’t believe it. Almost the entire fleet… lost!
Proof the entire Alliance fleet was not destroyed. Sure a large chunk but still not the entire thing.
~https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Declaration_of_Intent
Afterward, Baine has some new gossip text:
I never like turning anyone away, but I could not agree to add to our ranks when so many within the Horde are struggling.
So far aside from Genn whole we will soon need to send in farmer(which honestly seems more like Hyperbole then anything) there has been no mention of the Alliance struggling.
Weeeeeelll, hummanity did reclaim Arathi, so there is that?
Okay. They have a small portion of ships left.
Baine Bloodhoof says: But please, enjoy the hospitality of Orgrimmar as our guests. Horde or not, the vulpera will always be welcome here.
But there is mention that alleria doesn’t think that the combined rebel/Alliance army can defeat N’zoth, but Sylvanas’s loyalist army can.
Anduin and Saurfang both confirm that Sylvanas’s forces are larger. Blizzard has given three separate accounts of the Horde being a larger force – two of which being from Alliance mouths.
Furthermore, the absence of evidence of “the Alliance struggling” is not the evidence of absence.
Being hospitable and being actually able to give any meaningful aid are two different things. The fact is, Baine himself mentions many are struggling.
A point of view, not infallible fact. Especially considering we didnt even need either army to stop N’zoth.
That assertion however is based on the fact the night elves(well most of them at least) did not lend its aid to the Alliance at the time. Asides from the most die hard loyalist that followed Shandis, Tyrande and co seemed to have held back from the actual fight.
While that may be true enough, the inverse readily applies to the Horde. The Horde’s forces were significantly weakened by this war and honestly, even if they attempt another world war would be hard pressed to actually make any headway into Alliance controlled lands.
Even assuming the Alliance were less numerous than the Horde, it still holds vast amounts of natural wealth and resources it could use against a Horde that is probably crippled/nearly bankrupt.
Zerde.
Are you telling me that the vulpera join the Horde and are not eligibile to receive “meaningful aid”?
If so, you’re a liar.
Which is why I continued on to state that Saurfang and Anduin both remark that her army is larger by a considerable degree.
No, it isn’t, because the Horde is still fighting the Night Elves during the … siege? What do we call this?
Anduin, Saurfang, and Alleria canonically disagree with your assertion.
That was Baine’s entire point and why the Vulpera wanted to prove themselves, " I could not agree to add to our ranks when so many within the Horde are struggling." Meaning the vulpera had to give as much as they got and could not be a burden on the Horde.
We know the Alliance won Darkshore, the question becomes when. Anduin seems to believe Tyrande refused to help not because she couldn’t but because she wouldnt.
And Baine disagrees with yours. And as I mentioned, those trios assertion are based on the night elves mostly not lending a hand.
Zerde.
He lets them join the Horde. He has committed to aiding them. The entire reason he was not going to aid them – as Kiro or whatever his name is tells you – is because he doesn’t think the Vulpera will be able to help the Horde.
We also know they didn’t win Darkshore until the Horde withdrew from the war after Sylvanas left Orgrimmar.
No he doesn’t. You willfully misrepresent what he says due to blatant Alliance bias.
No we do not. There was never any implication of WHEN the victory happened. All we know is they did win it. In fact, seems like it is time to turn the tables. Why don’t you give us proof they specifically mentioned this victory happened after Sylvanas was kicked out?
He tells you “many in the Horde are struggling”. That is not bias, that is a statement of the sorry state Horde is in.
He doesnt think the Vulpera could help the Horde, and VICE VERSA. The Horde was stretched thin AND he even tells you it was struggling. That is not Alliance bias, that is his opinion of the current state of the Horde.
I’d also point out with both Mechagnomes and Vulpera joining the fray that again ultimately changes balance of power/ and population numbers.
you know, i understand that securing kalimdor could be seen as “securing the future” but the thing is… the whole point of destroying theramore was to drive the kaldorei out of kalimdor… but… they returned… Sure teldrassil is gone but we do know that at least darkshore has been reclaimed and tyrande signed no treaty.
The only reason why the horde is still alive (aside from bring playable) is because the alliance is willing to give peace a chance and defeat the current big bad,What would happen if the alliance just don’t sign anything at all and start fighting the horde until some of the evil entities kills both and destroys azeroth?.
That coincided with the point I was trying to make. By Anduin not ending the horde, the Alliance have shot themselves in the foot. Yeah the Night elves are back but, all evidence leans itself to Them having a hard time reproducing, in 15-20 years the Horde will have replenished their numbers and will have nothing stopping another war of thorns, no Theramore to open a second front.[quote=“Etheldald-ragnaros, post:31, topic:518972, full:true”]
So you are saying that anduin and the alliance should go into a self-destructive behavior that will eventually end azeroth because the horde cannot control themselves until both sides are too weakened to face the current world ending threat?
is that securing the future? because the way i see it, is playing with fire. Hell, both sides have worked togheter to end a big evil more times than fighting each other.
That isn’t what he said.
He said “the alliance shot themselves in the foot by not ending the horde”
So the alliance should be going for total mutual destruction?. like, thats fine by me. at least we both would get what we deserve.
No. He implied that the Alliance should’ve cut the head off the snake while it was able, not that it should flail helplessly now that they’re outnumbered by the snake.
You are talking about killing their leaders and go dismantle mode?
You are probably right. Why anduin even wants to save them?.
I don’t agree with him. I’m explaining what he said.
you know, i wish i could say that anduin did the right thing by wanting peace again but if we are going to have another city destroyed for trusting the horde again then i think that i would rather that both sides just die.
hopefully i am proven wrong.
I’d like you to be proven wrong too, but I know better.
I’ve always been on board with the idea that the War of Thorns without the burning of Teldrassil would have been a smart Realpolitik move on the Horde’s part.
Let the Night elves keep Teldrassil/Hyjal/moonglade, and build a fortress town in Darkshore to make sure the Alliance doesn’t build a foothold there again and boom, you’ve got secure borders, and the bloodthirsty hawks in the Alliance like Genn would have to sit and stew impotently with rage (Good luck fortifying the north EK in that case though).