Having 4 specs would probably just solve all the problems. Like I prev mentioned I really enjoy MSV and would really dislike seeing it go. They could bring back old survival and make MSV a tank spec or something if people really don’t think it has enough utility(I don’t really understand why people dont think it has utility).
I don’t think people think msv doesn’t have utility, I believe it’s that msv’s toolkit is weaker pound for pound than other melee toolkits.
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I enjoy playing it too. I don’t like being removed from raids for playing it. And that has happened. So I assume that’s why I was having trouble getting invites even after AOTC. Switched to BM and my DPS went up by a third with just gemming and enchants changes. And a bow, obviously.
Which is ridiculous, BTW. Why force a spec on us, removing the old one which I, and clearly other’s enjoyed, then abandon it? Clearly the dev’s don’t want it competitive. That, or they just can’t be bothered to nurture their mistake.
And yes, it should have been a 4th spec. Right? But no one outside the precious druids gets that.
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Honestly they can make it competitive and I don’t care.
If they make it better than BM or MM for PvE though? People, myself included, will be furious.
That would be like making Arcane mage a conjured weapons MDPS spec, then buffing it over Frost and Fire. Existing players who like Arcane mana management would lose their specs, and Frost and Fire players who want to compete would need to swap to melee dps, which presumably didn’t even exist on their class when they rolled it.
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1- The whole point of hunting is to get a clean kill to use the animal for food or furs after. This makes throwing a grenade dumb even if it’s not a point blank range.
2- Your pet is in melee range. Sorry Fluffy, I really needed to secure that kill, your sacrifice will be remembered
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Not really. Most MM talents are crap anyways. It wouldn’t really fit the MM theme though.
Cough explosive shot same thing cough
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Yes, yes it would piss off MM mains. As a MM main, if they deleted 1/3 of our talents just to push in RSV into MM, I would be super pissed.
Not really, Most talents are just in rows where there is no hope of competing against 1 particular talent in that row.
Let’s take the the 1st row.
Serpent Sting isn’t a bad talent per se. For me it’s about 24k dmg every 12 seconds. Problem is it costs an additional 50 focus per minute to use to maximum effect. That’s not really focus MM has to spend, but if we did have that extra 50 focus per minute, well more to be fair, serpent sting would be a better choice than master marksman.
Murder of Crows is actually a really good lvling/open world talent, but it doesn’t do well in raids because the damage it does is low for the CD it has. In M+ it suffers from a large focus cost and low damage having to reapply it to targets. If it’s undone damage carried over, there might be something to talk about.
Anyway, point is, most of the talents in MM aren’t bad, they’re just vastly overshadowed by 1 of the talents in their row. And when I say over shadowed I mean it’s like sticking a palm tree behind a redwood.
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Explosive Shot was a DoT, not a bomb. So no, not the same thing.
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Stretching the point here. It was a dot. But it also says clearly, Explosive shot…
I’d agree with Serpent Sting being a good talent if we had the focus for it, but we don’t, so as is, it’s a dead talent. Maybe this changes in SL.
Murder of Crows, again, you’re right, but in the end it’s a hand me down version of a BM talent. I actually like the idea of the first row, because essentially your choosing between MM, Surv, and BM, it’s just the only viable option is the MM talent.
The second row, again, gives us an option of RSV flavor, but again, it’s not viable because of Careful Aim.
Point being, the options for RSV playstyle and flavor are already there, they just need to be added on to, or buffed to be viable options. Lock n’ Load could easily be turned into a DoT with a longer CD(like Black Arrow) that has a chance to proc Lock n’ Load. Serpent Sting needs some sort of interaction so we wouldn’t have to cast it as much(steady shot extends it, I believe that’s what it used to be). Explosive Shot just needs to be buffed or removed from the Careful Aim row, and could easily just be edited to replace Aimed Shot. Steady Shot, Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, Serpent Sting. The tools are all right there in the tree already, just need to be tweaked.
All this being said, I would much rather just have them add RSV back as it’s own spec.
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This is true of every AoE ability in the game. Don’t overthink it.
I don’t hate it, but I kind of find it lacking, somehow. My main has been BM for a long time, and I used MM situationally before I went hardcore casual. Used to raid almost exclusively in the old ranged SV spec.
But, recently, I leveled a hunter strictly as melee SV just to immerse myself in it and give it a fair shake. I kept wishing for stuff I had as BM, but when playing BM, I never find myself thinking, “If only I was in my SV spec, I could…”
The Aspect of the Eagle ability (Raptor Strike can be used from up to 40 yds for 15 sec) makes me feel like every now and then I get to play SV as a “real” hunter.
Doing sustained AoE with SV is more complex than BM, as well.
Harpoon is kind of a fun gap-closer, but it’s not worth basing a whole spec. around.
If I’m going to play a melee spec., I honestly like DH better.
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I find it to be the most enjoyable hunter spec tbh. Probably one of the most fun specs I’ve played all expansion actually.
However I can see why people complain about it. Probably the same reason I complain about them changing shadow priest to a void priest. Only a bit worse for SV considering it was a ranged spec that TOTALLY changed to a melee spec.
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Harpoon was way better in Legion. Better even than Charge for Warrior, because it reset after a kill. Made it super fun to just bounce from one mob to the next.
Because it does no damage and I liked the ranged version in WOD a lot. And they took it away. If you want to know how much of a joke it is watch this. It is a funny video.
Edit: I just rewatched it and couldn’t find the joke so it must be in another one of his videos but he sims BM with survival azerite traits and it is 10k higher than survival with survival azerite traits.
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This video made my day. Thank you!
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Or you could watch @bicmex and see what a good sv can do
Whether MM talents are “crap” or not, would depend on who you ask. It also depends on what you mean when you say “crap”.
Here, I agree with you.
If we take into account the major focus on “spec identities” which they pushed for, going into Legion, it’s no longer reasonable to say that a spec like MM could also be suited for/merged with another defined playstyle/fantasy. There just isn’t room for multiple defined playstyles within 1 single spec. Simply because of the intent of pushing for thematic depth, both mechanically as well as aesthetically.
We have more or less had this “problem” since the time when they first introduced the concept of having Core Specializations(which we got, going into Cataclysm). The only difference since then, is the fact that they have time and again doubled down on the thematic design and depth for each Core Spec.
The thing about changes in Legion, is how they chose to also include spec-specific talents in this new philosophy. The defined playstyles, as base concepts, we had even before Legion.
Not really. Explosive Shot nowadays, holds the theme of RSV in name only. Apart from that, it has nothing to do with the old ability we had when it was still part of RSV.
It doesn’t even have the animation of the old ES. Now, it looks more similar to our Flare-ability, if shot straight forward instead of up in the air.
Again, not really.
Simply taking a few talent options that vaguely hints at what the old RSV playstyle was like, doesn’t make up for what it was.
That would be Cobra Shot.
This would not make for RSV. It would still essentially just be MM but with some old RSV-abilities added in, either on top of/or as replacements to 1 or two specific MM-abilities.
And, like has been said before. You could do all this and still only achieve something that is barely a bare-bones version of the old RSV. And at the same time, it would require more changes to be made to MM in order to fit these new options in there, while simultaneously causing damage to the current identity of MM as a defined specialization.
For those that prefer MM over what RSV was, if they don’t like some specific MM talents which are currently there, I’m sure these players(many of) would rather have those talents “fixed” instead of removed/changed for a different playstyle.
Agreed.
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If you watched the video they explain that they really want to encourage other to try SV, and they are repeating what other players have said or their guild mates have.
It was a roast on MSV but it was to intended to amuse other players and show how many of those myths are not true.