Why surv is the least played?

Classes Hunter
589

Because Icy Veins THE authority on every spec/class/talent…even though they have a hard time actually committing to one talent or another half the time. Lots of “?” in the talent pages, Ive noticed…almost as if they dont really know what to take half the time.
Which makes me want to point out their big " ?" on Butchery, lol.

[Butchery] shines in burst AoE scenarios where you quickly have to dispose of many stacked adds at once. It also has a greater range than !][Carve], so it can be used when the important targets are spread over a wider area. Even then, however, we prefer Guerrilla Tactics for most situations.
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/survival-hunter-pve-dps-spec-builds-pet-talents

Evidently icyveins is kinda up in the air about Butchery themselves, which is quite clearly an admission that it AINT as bad as some in here are making it out to be.

“we PREFER”…not “Butchery sucks hozenrump” lol

590

Yeah you’re right. I’ve combed through it a bit more. The wall o’ text crit me hard.

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591

In the current raid tier this talent is seen in vexiona and the hivemind. Both fights that have Stacked low health aids throughout the fight.

Butchery is a very niche talent that is useless in single target scenarios and only gets its value in frequent add fights where there are 5 plus short lived targets.

For this tier the talent has its place in those two fights but cannot be recommended outside there.

592

Wildfire Bomb and Serpent Sting are also multi target especially with the talent on that row.
Butchery is probably ‘niche’ because everyone apparently wants SV to be ranged only and wont give it a chance.
All three of the talents on that row are better with multi target.
The biggest difference that two of them are ranged, which makes me think THAT is the issue here, not that Butchery itself is as bad as a few in here claim it to be.

593

Yes but hydras bite improves SS in single target and is also great for cleave on 2-4 adds or bosses where there are only 2 targets. Hydras bite is also the go too for multi target if you are running a latent poison build.

Wildfire bomb has the strongest single target and is also strong on burst multi target.

This makes Butchery the most niche as the latter just happen more frequently.

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594

as I posted above…i dont believe for a single second, having SEEN all three of them doing damage to single and multi targets…and yes…on my 120 hunter as well for any jokers who want to keep railing on about 'but but but…level 60…"…that any SV hunter being played by a decent player is going to be kicked for low DPS.

Y’all can argue it til the cows come in and it isnt going to make me buy that if thats whats being said…though no one seems to want to actually address that point, lol…and it isnt going to change my mind.
They can drag a new poster in here to rattle of the same thing again and Im simply not buying it.
Even the gods at Icyveins left it a “?” instead of their patented “X” when they dont think a talent should ever be taken.

and ‘niche’ doesnt = ‘bad’.
Of course the ‘niche’ might just be that fewer players WANT to run SV as mostly melee.

that measly 10% boost to damage with SS is nice and all, but Id rather be in melee range pounding the target with raptor strike, personally…or if its a mob…Butchery.

595

or an existing one. lol

596

You want to be in melee range no matter what talents you pick. You can’t auto attack or raptor/mongoose at range. No one is playing current sv like a ranged class.

Have you been thinking this whole time people want you to try to fight from 40 yards out? (Not picking at you. Serious question after looking back through your replies)

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597

They sure as hades SOUND like thats what is being pushed in here half the time, lol.
Theyve SAID pretty plainly that they want SV to be ranged ‘again’…and given the obvious hatred of Butchery, its not too far a jump to their trying to force it to play as ranged

thats pretty much the impression theyve given me over 2 or 3 of these threads here, yeah…

598

To add to all that, I just dont see the math being that huge a difference betweent spending the focus to keep DoTing targets, not to mention the CD time thereof…instead of just taking butchery and hitting the entire mob all at once for X damage for a one time charge of X focus.

Id like to see two equally talented raiders…one with my set up and one using Serpent sting…both giving it 100% and see for myself that Butchery is so bad that the player would be laughed and and kicked from a raid for low DPS.

As I said…ive toyed around with it and I just aint seeing that Butchery is a bad choice.
If Im up close in melee, Im spending my time on kill command and Raptor strike for single target…and Butchery for that mob surrounding me.

599

Yeah I thought something was up. You must have thought everyone’s trolling you. So with that context all they’re saying is butchery isn’t as good as the other two talents in that row aside from short lived burst aoe situations. Its great at that.
For me currently it’s only like an 1100 dps loss. That’s not so bad. Ymmv
But yeah no matter what you need to be melee range.

4 Likes
600

I really appreciate you helping to clear up things! Re-reading the discussion, it now all makes sense.

I never said anything about attempting to play MSV from range. Only that the play styles are different from level 60 to level 120.

601

:rofl: Well. now that you mention it.
I did have to go fire up classic and take a look, then go read a bunch about the evolution of the hunter class just to see what I was missing.
I dont get the impression at all that the SV spec was ever meant to be SOLELY ranged, but I could have missed something, I guess.

“as good as” I guess, depending on the context.
BUT…IF we’re using THAT logic shouldnt EVERYONE be playing the highest DPS, most bestus spec in the game instead of what they LIKE to play?
I mean, we all see the charts and graphs and can figure out what blizzards flavor of the patch is this week.
Why is anyone playing ANY class or spec that isnt absolutely the BEST for that content…IF this is an actual issue, know what I mean?

i just dont see someone being asked to leave a raid or guild or whatever over taking butchery and having to play it a bit differently to get decent DPS…otherwise why even allow melee classes in to begin with?

the other thing that annoys…well, makes me chuckle…is the 'but but but…youre playing level 60"
uh…ok…but Ive also leveled nearly every class in this game so far and Ive yet to see any of them that were so horribly godlike in lowbie content, then turn to abject ‘suck’ at max level.
I just aint buying that either.

The biggest issue for me is my thread on SV where I was just saying how much l liked it then little Johnny Downer had to come in immediately with his not so veiled insults and then gets upset if someone dares to reciprocate.

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602

well, yeah.
You have to forgive me anyway…two other posters in here have been insulting since I started saying I like SV…as if I needed to get their approval for making the statement or something.
that gets annoying not just being able to TALK ABOUT what we may like without half a dozen proof readers correcting our every thought process…know what I mean?

603

Hey, misunderstandings happens. :slight_smile: Goodness knows how many times I’ve misunderstood what people are trying to say on the forums.

I’m just glad we were able to figure out the confusion! :grin:

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604

And I do get that, actually.

I rolled Watermist in 2005, and specced her as MM. All these 15 years, I’ve always been MM.

MM was… considerably weaker than BM in PvE during BC (and a few expansions since then, but it was the worst in BC).

I experienced a lot of bullying from BM hunters during BC — including my own guild mates! It got so bad that our guild master removed one of them — and as a result, I grew to genuinely hate BM.

I was pretty bitter towards everything BM-related until about halfway through Cata, when my guild master asked me to mentor a fellow guild mate. Knowing that the said guildie is a die-hard BM Hunter, I sighed and swallowed my pride. I read up BM stuff pretty thoroughly on Icy Veins, and then sat her down for nearly two hours while I slowly walked her through everything.

She instantly doubled in her damage output and only got better from on.

It was also the point where I finally got over of my immature (even if kinda well-deserved) irrational hatred of BM hunters.

That’s also when I learned the invaluable lesson of having a thick skin.

I got bullied again in WoD and Legion (nowhere as near as bad as the bullying in BC) for resolutely refusing to run Lone Wolf on my MM Hunter. But this time around… I found it pretty easy to shrug off the vitriol.

Every time people asks me about MSV, my reply is always the same: it’s not the spec itself that I’m against. I’m even willing to try it out! I just hate how they removed a 12-year-old spec for the new spec. So due to that reason, I’m still not comfortable with the existence of MSV.

Does this means I hate the MSV players? Not in the slightest! I love welcoming new Hunters.

Do I think that the best solution is having 4 specs? Yup. The day that RSV returns… that day is when I’ll make a baby hunter dedicated to MSV (I’m the sort who rolls multiple toons dedicated to one spec each. I still play my BM hunter a little but I haven’t touched my RSV hunter since the Legion pre-patch. It just feels… wrong, to me, to change the toon’s identity to another spec).

I prattle on, but I really do get it. Bullying over specs and play styles is pretty dumb.

The best thing you can do is just to let it slide off your skin. :woman_shrugging:t3:

4 Likes
605

I could go for that as long as theyre going to keep up with them.
I REEEEEALLY want a shaman tank spec (hint hint blizzard).
Id like to see it be a new fourth spec. Druid has four…doesnt seem to be a huge problem.

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606

Honestly I’d rather see fourth specs instead of new classes. So much more potential for cool specs.

Shield DPS warrior, ranged holy DPS paladin, tank specs for shaman and warlock? hell ye

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607

Exactly this.

Here’s to hoping that they will do so.

For RSV as well.

/Hint @devs

Yes!

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609

This is spectacularly ignorant (i.e. par for the course). The question mark over a talent does not indicate that they don’t know about the talent. It indicates that the talent is a situational, unconventional choice but still viable. Which is what everyone here is actually saying, by the way. This “butchery will get you kicked out of your raid and guild” thing is a strawman made up by you.

The only ridiculous stance about Butchery here is you saying that it’s the best thing ever and the only reason Survival isn’t a god tier spec at max level is because none of the sheeple SV hunters at max level have bothered to spec Butchery. Those people are far, far more informed about Survival than you, and they depend on more rigorous methods than “i just feel the math doesn’t add up”. I doubt you would even recognise terms like “simulations” and “action priority lists”.

P.S. Are you under the impression that Serpent Sting can’t be used in melee? Because your posts as of late sure make it seem that way.

P.P.S. Unironically using the term “hozenrump” might actually be the cringiest forum LARPing I’ve ever seen.

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