Why surv is the least played?

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

So you’re cool with them deleting MSV? Or are you saying you want 9 specs and your spec?

the point was clear enough, Id say.

Frankly, it’s not hard to fix all the specs.

Im not a blizzard dev. I doubt you are either. ‘hard’ is subjective when you dont have the time or money…which apparently they dont have enough of either these days…well, for fixing crap.

I never understood why they needed to rework the specs so drastically in Legion.

You mean the Survival Hunter spec that, contrary to the fibs of some in here, has BEEN a melee/ranged hybrid and was in classic, as I just found out when I fired classic up a few minutes ago and made a survival hunter and got this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x_Jd8lYeUrpwqGX2R6laDnC5nJJVS035/view

Thats right…very first spell is about MELEE combat.
I tried it out and sure enough…got a bow for ranged and move into melee combat to finish up…exactly like Im doing 15 years later in retail.

I don’t like to see people posting positive things about MSV. It feels like somebody is dancing on my grave.

1. youre going to have to deal with that.
2. what grave?
   I already gave a screenshot to CLASSIC where a survival hunter is a Melee/ranged hybrid…NOT pure ranged as some keep claiming in here.
   From what Im seeing the hybrid is the original survival spec.

[Danieltoon-sargeras]

THIS was my very first spell, lol

You realize it doesn’t matter if your Survival or not to get that ability. It’s baseline for all hunters.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

At least you’re not a troll. Typically what you say is fair. Some people are straight up passive aggressive though (both sides). I’ve stopped reading their posts. So no, you don’t suck.

I get called troll a lot, lol.
Mostly because I just say whats in my head. I get that from the don. I think he fooled around with my mother back in the day. lol

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

THIS was my very first spell, lol

You realize it doesn’t matter if your Survival or not to get that ability. It’s baseline for all hunters.

ok…then ALL hunters are melee/ranged hybrids in classic?
then all this crying is about nothing in here ?

Survival in classic feels pretty much exactly like retail from what Im seeing already.
I like it.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

You mean the Survival Hunter spec that, contrary to the fibs of some in here, has BEEN a melee/ranged hybrid and was in classic, as I just found out when I fired classic up a few minutes ago and made a survival hunter and got this?

You’ve talked a lot about intended design in later replies.

The thing about Classic(Vanilla) was that the design, did not intend for any version of the Hunter class(no matter what talents you chose) to be either a melee fighter or even a hybrid.

The design, being the baseline core toolkit was almost entirely focused on ranged combat. Most offensive talents focused on ranged combat.

We were capable at dealing damage in melee, we had certain utility and defensives designed for melee.

But none of that, resulted in you intentionally wanting to seek out melee combat.

That was the design and intent.

And no, I’m not talking about level 1. I’m talking about when you had every ability and effect and available talent option, and more to pick from.

The only reason we sometimes opted to fight in melee range, was due to the restrictions put on our ranged weapons.
And, at such times, the goal was to get back into range(get away from the enemy).

Whether everyone played like this or not, it ofc varied a lot.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

You’ve talked a lot about intended design in later replies.

Is frost mage a ranged spec?
how about arcane?
Pretty easy to figure them both out, quite honestly, just by playing them for a couple hours…or less.

The thing about Classic(Vanilla) was that the design, did not intend for any version of the Hunter class(no matter what talents you chose) to be either a melee fighter or even a hybrid.

huh…really?
Because right out of the gate I had both ranged and melee attacks.
Sounds sorta hybridish to me.

But none of that, resulted in you intentionally wanting to seek out melee combat.

ok…and wasnt the structure of character development entirely different then? Like much more involved?
As they dumbed down the game it obviously evolved.
At some point they decided that there should be a hunter spec with some melee to it.
Im actually happy there is.

And, at such times, the goal was to get back into range(get away from the enemy).

you can still do that. Its called Marksman and Beast master.
In essence all they took was the name ‘survival’.
anyone can still play ranged hunter today.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

Is frost mage a ranged spec?
how about arcane?
Pretty easy to figure them both out, quite honestly, just by playing them for a couple hours…or less.

And?

What does this have to do with design intent for SV in the game today or in the past?

huh…really?
Because right out of the gate I had both ranged and melee attacks.
Sounds sorta hybridish to me.

Yes really.

Check out the full class design of Hunters from Vanilla/Classic.

Not just what you happen to start with at low level.

Btw, while I can’t guarantee this being the reason, you do start with a ranged weapon at level 1 as a hunter in classic/vanilla.
But s I said above, you have the range restrictions(including the dead zone) already at level 1.

Meaning for someone who’s new to the game especially, but for others as well, how do you think it would go for anyone playing hunter there but with no melee attack to fall back on, and no capability to keep the enemy far away from you, how do you think it would end up?

At some point they decided that there should be a hunter spec with some melee to it.
Im actually happy there is.

Like I said before, I agree with this.

Simply because there are players who want to play as hunters, but as melee fighters.

But also again, if they wanted to add something like a melee-focused spec for this class(something we never actually had before), then it should not come as a replacement to existing playstyles which already have a lot of players invested in them.

you can still do that. Its called Marksman and Beast master.
In essence all they took was the name ‘survival’.
anyone can still play ranged hunter today.

You’re still not getting it.

It’s not only about the Ranged vs. Melee debate.

The topic of SV(RSV) is about in what way it focused on ranged combat.
What playstyle it provided.

One that was unlike both BM and MM through it’s entire existence.

And could’ve been even more so if they had decided to do the same to it as what they did to all other specs, going into Legion.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

What does this have to do with design intent for SV in the game today or in the past?

uh…yeah

Check out the full class design of Hunters from Vanilla/Classic.

what I can SEE with my own eyes is Survival having its own separate tab from Marksmanship…and that it has one of the very hallmark melee spells, even if not exactly the same, as current retails version of the spec.
I think sometimes people rememmber things one way when they existed another way.

survival
https://drive.google.com/open?id=18HL4PI3_Ix38HdW-Z5NPhUeXjXkfa4wB

Marksmanship
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z3tdv_TTk8ZCUyztRIcFq8GsCXDpRC7I

General
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rXtkug5Kiz9AFjJZ33SpItWySamYDph6

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Xazaloa-daggerspine

what I can SEE with my own eyes is Survival having its own separate tab from Marksmanship…and that it has one of the very hallmark melee spells, even if not exactly the same, as current retails version of the spec.
I think sometimes people rememmber things one way when they existed another way.

See my reply in the other thread.

This one:
#Lord. Survival is just obnoxiously good, lol - #118 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

And could’ve been even more so if they had decided to do the same to it as what they did to all other specs, going into Legion.

Im not arguing that they havent screwed the game up. Give me classic wands that actually worked any day of the week.
But its been going on since i got here…the crying about how great survival was WHEN it wasnt a melee spec…which is what Im going on about and what you apparently arent getting yourself.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

@Xazaloa-daggerspine

what I can SEE with my own eyes is Survival having its own separate tab from Marksmanship…and that it has one of the very hallmark melee spells, even if not exactly the same, as current retails version of the spec.
I think sometimes people rememmber things one way when they existed another way.

See my reply in the other thread.

This one:
#Lord. Survival is just obnoxiously good, lol - #118 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

See my entire thread there…every…single…post.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

But its been going on since i got here…the crying about how great survival was WHEN it wasnt a melee spec…which is what Im going on about and what you apparently arent getting yourself.

I’m not going to engage in that specifically. As that is all about player preferences.

And, as we all (should) know. Preferences and opinions, they vary. A lot.

See my entire thread there…every…single…post

Yeah? I’ve read them all.

Point being?

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

And, as we all (should) know. Preferences and opinions, they vary. A lot.

Many of my responses have been about this idea that melee doesnt fit a hunter theme. Thats absolute nonsense. Some hunters even in the first world today will hunt melee/close range style…literally dropping out of a tree with a spear to get a wild hog.
https://www.huntwithaspear.com/

So yeah…melee absolutely IS a hunter theme…even in the real 21st century world.

[Danieltoon-sargeras]

what I can SEE with my own eyes is Survival having its own separate tab from Marksmanship

Before Ion took the reigns, character design was based on classes, not specs. You didn’t pick one spec or another; you picked talents from each of the specs. No matter what “specialization” you were, the Hunter CLASS was ranged. The specialization did not define the class. It only supported the class.

But, yes. You are correct. We were able to do melee damage. I even remember being upset when the took my Polearm from me.

Of course, it wasn’t necessary by then, because the dead zone was removed in TBC (best change ever), and I could still damage things when they got in my face. That was the ONLY REASON any hunter would ever use a melee weapon.

Hunters were NEVER melee. Period. You’re welcome to argue that, but you would be wrong. Spreading disinformation to prove your point doesn’t help your cause.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

Before Ion took the reigns, character design was based on classes, not specs.

Please never mention that name when speaking to me, lol
ive played 9 classes since Classic was released up to just about level 19 or so. Definitely different. They need to find a good balance between what classic was and retail is, honestly.
I think game players of any sort can handle a little more depth.

Hunters were NEVER melee. Period.

puhlease…my FIRST spell as survival in Classic was a MELEE spell, friend.
You dont have to like it but facts are what they are.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1x_Jd8lYeUrpwqGX2R6laDnC5nJJVS035

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

puhlease…my FIRST spell as survival in Classic was a MELEE spell, friend.

I already explained to you earlier, as to why Hunters when starting at level one(in Vanilla/Classic) get such an ability.

Again, because of restrictions to our ranged weapons.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

puhlease…my FIRST spell as survival in Classic was a MELEE spell, friend.

I already explained to you earlier, as to why Hunters when starting at level one(in Vanilla/Classic) get such an ability.

Again, because of restrictions to our ranged weapons.

yeah…you also kinda implied that they ALL had it. I dont see Raptor Strike on the marksmanship tab. I can post the link for you again if you need.
Oddly, SV got it straight out of the gate…combined with what I assume was added to the general tab items, sure seems like to me that SV was pretty much a melee/ranged hybrid from classic…at least that appears to be the direction the game is pushing the player from level 1 in classic.

As a side note…did you just latch on to some little point I made to find some reason to bicker with me back and forth for a week?
Cause I really cant find much of good reason for you and I to even be having this particular exchange.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Xazaloa-daggerspine

yeah…you also kinda implied that they ALL had it. I dont see Raptor Strike on the marksmanship tab. I can post the link for you again if you need.

Check this reply:

#Lord. Survival is just obnoxiously good, lol - #137 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

How your spells and effects were sorted into different tabs in your spellbook is based on talents and on various core features of the class.

Or in the case of Survival back then, multiple minor features clumped together into one section.

[Azagorod-emerald-dream]

Claims of popularity are based on data provided from content types which are being tracked

Which only FRAGMENTS of content types are being tracked.
-Fixed it for you.

Let me remind you also that M+, Raid and Ranked PvP is not the whole game.

You want to lean on the representation showing all players with characters at level 120 who are specced into SV?

Thats literally the only data you can get close representation of the class, and yes even that isn’t accurate. Offspecs, inactive accounts, etc. There is a % of error there, but it is still much better representation of a class compared to all other data available.

The data needs to cover all aspect, pve, pvp, ranked, higher difficulty, lower difficulty. Using one of these gets you a portion of players that play X way for that specific content only…

That is literally about the worst thing you can do, because it tells us nothing about why they are specced into it. It doesn’t even tell us if they actually are playing as SV.

You dont need to know “why” they are playing it, if they play it… they simply play it. For RP, non M+ dungeons, LFR, wpvp, non rated pvp bg and arena…

We’d certainly need to know more how it is being selected, do they say 1 is SV because it has more playtime on X spec? or because it logged off on that spec. Do they still play, or does it take inactive character into it.

Even with all that… its still the closest accurate data there is.

[Xazaloa-daggerspine]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

@Xazaloa-daggerspine

yeah…you also kinda implied that they ALL had it. I dont see Raptor Strike on the marksmanship tab. I can post the link for you again if you need.

Check this reply:

#Lord. Survival is just obnoxiously good, lol - #137 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

How your spells and effects were sorted into different tabs in your spellbook is based on talents and on various core features of the class.

Or in the case of Survival back then, multiple minor features clumped together into one section.

responded to elsewhere.
As stated…SV begins the game in classic with a MELEE spell…it IS a quasi melee class, end of debate.