Only to an ESL speaker who literally doesn’t know what the word drastic means except that he can use it emphatically to inflate word count. How do you understate the severity of a specs change by saying it was changed to the most imaginable extent? It was not literally removed, it was literally drastically reworked. Some of us like to know what our word choices mean.
I don’t think I need to “prove” anything to anyone paying attention. Most people are smart enough to recognize what I’m talking about. Your preference to portray yourself as angelic is your biggest undoing to anyone well enough versed in how this place works, or how human beings work.
If only you lobbied for something more important than your attachment to the version of a spec that was most popular during the least played expansion in the games history. C’est la vie en autism.
Combat was a more popular spec for rogues than survival historically was for hunters, outlaw is an even more dramatic departure from old combat, and can be argued as an actual complete removal since the spec was renamed, yet rogue tears aren’t nearly as prominent as the usual 3 on this topic.
Very revealing since surv is better designed than outlaw, it’s probably more to do with the demographics attracted to our class. We’ve always been one of the whiniest classes.
The spec Survival, sure, was drastically changed. As far as that goes, it’s just a name.
But the spec known as RSV, the one which existed prior to Legion, and that made up for what Survival was back then, that spec, wasn’t just drastically changed.
It was removed.
Survival as you say, it does no longer present a playstyle or a core specialization that relies on the use of a ranged weapon.
So, let’s compare…
The popularity claim is very much debatable. But by all means, present some data which backs up this claim of yours.
The name and whether that was changed or not doesn’t really matter here.
What matters is the actual core elements. And the design behind.
Sure, Combat saw extensive changes made. Not denying that. But it’s still a spec dedicated to the use of one-handed weapons is it not? It’s still a melee-spec, is it not?
Is Survival still a spec dedicated to the use of ranged weapons?
You tell me…
My preference to do what…?
You wana try that again?
At least bother to provide something as a basis for that. Or are you just spouting nonsense, trying to deflect from your poor arguments?
Who are you to come on here and tell us what we(or in this case, I) should consider to be important or not?
If you can’t handle other players talking about what they would want to see return to the game then, that’s on you. Not on them.
No it isn’t. Combat was the staple of rogue raiding for many, many, many years, not just one tier in WoD where it coincidentally (not coincidentally btw) happened to be overpowered.
Have you played Outlaw? Outlaw isn’t pure melee anymore, either. It’s also a hybrid ranged/melee playstyle. There’s a talent that turns it into a medium-range melee, as well.
Your preference to posture with pseudointellectual pomp and frivolity, you bloviating bastion of walls-o-text.
The basis for this claim is the contents of your posting history in general, not a singular entry in the last 24 hours, and everyone is all too familiar with that; because you’re one of the 3 “power posters” about RSV who cannot let a thread about survival go unmolested with your half-baked armchair developer thoughts and opinions. How many threads have you linked that half-baked thread of wishes of yours into with the perception that you’re enlightening the crowd?
Big words for a guy that can’t handle people enjoying a spec he doesn’t.
It’s not a conspiracy, it’s more of a small circle jerk of desk-bound wage laborers who use their ample free time to try to get their way by sheer volume of posts.
Anyone that’s paid attention to the ongoing controversy the last few years about blizzard automating their report systems knows (as I’m positive you yourself do) that it’s quite easy to abuse. Let’s not sheepishly pretend ignorant to the fact that only a certain mentality of poster bothers reporting people in the first place. The morally indignant and highly opinionated, who could I possibly be referring to?
Patterns aren’t hard to observe. You claim not to report people, but you’re an unreliable narrator at best, and it’s not hard to tell which side of this thread is of the necessary moral slant to bother reporting people.
I’m sure it’s a coincidence the same posters are always active when the spam reporting starts
heh. Yeah. I bring along mana buns and took alchemy to keep stocked up on healing potions, lol, just to keep some heat off the healer who hopefully should be focusing on the tank instead.
I am having an absolute blast with survival.
I swapped over to the Butchery talent, even though its apparently not what most players use. https://wow.gameinfo.io/talent-builds/pve/hunter/survival
I have to say that I was seriously and pleasantly surprised in how it is mowing down mobs now. Actually increased my DPS quite a bit in those runs where the mobs abound.
Survival is hopefully going to be my main hunter spec, assuming they dont do something stupid when Shadowlands drops lol
I doubt they will, contrary to the thoughts of certain posters blizzard seems quite well aware of how well designed surv is. It’s one of the only specs people have hardly ever requested nerfs OR buffs to.
That says more about the specs success than whether or not Bepples and two low level alts like the concept of melee. It’s a damn rarity.
heh…it is definitely a fantastic spec to play. Takes a bit more thought process than BM or even MM, but Im finding it a lot more fun than either of those.
I do love the 15 second CD on the interrupt over the 24 second on BM.
That is flipping awesome that it has that short a CD.
That’s due to it being a melee kick rather than a ranged kick
In pvp the status of our kick is ironically the most “melee” thing about the playstyle; we’ve gotta hump casters for kicks. It’s the only real tether from just staying ranged 80% of the game as we do against other melee.
oh…that make sense. I guess I didnt really read the effect so didnt understand their reasoning for it.
“requires melee weapon”
That actually gives it more personality, for me anyway.
you know, I signed up for a BG to try it out two days ago.
Lord…40 minutes later I just logged out.
Im dying to try it in PvP. Maybe should just swap to warmode for a bit and see how it goes.
Thats good to know.
Ive only PvPed with warrior, DH and balance druid (which was seriously hilarious and awesome).
I know hunters were the only class in the game that i had a hard time dealing with in PvP.
that stinking pet nibbling at my heels then finally start ripping into the hunter only to have the jerk turtle shell on me, lol.
by the time it expired 7 of his buddies would show up to pound my liver into cheap pate
I just started ignoring the hunters and trying to kill everyone else.
It’s a sign of a bad grasp of game design when people use “you can’t please everyone” as an excuse to chase designs that actively piss people off.
You can’t deny there was less strife in the Hunter playerbase before melee Survival was announced.
Clearly didn’t read what you’re replying to.
Call me crazy, but people might associate the “hunter look” with how they actually looked when fighting and, you know, playing the class instead of how your ranged weapon failed to appear when you were doing nothing.
Survival’s melee does not stop at aesthetic like the classic Hunter. It lacks a ranged weapon in all but a weak animation for one baseline ability. So it really doesn’t match up to Hunters of old, in aesthetic, identity, or gameplay.
Uh, no. It’s not about aesthetics. It’s about being a ranged DPS. But yes, I wouldn’t be too happy if I as a ranged spec did not have the ranged weapon visible instead of a placeholder melee weapon. I wasn’t happy about it pre-MoP and neither were many other Hunters.
They don’t have to undo it. Like you said, there can be an aesthetic-only melee weapon attachment for those who want it. They can make the appearances available to other 2-handed specs.
Plus, you know damn well hardly anyone played Survival back in Legion much less did the mage tower on it, so they wouldn’t exactly have to worry about disrupting a large group of people.
Survival changed far more drastically than everything else. For most specs you can go back expansion by expansion and trace the iterative changes that led to the modern versions. A handful of specs had an abrupt change in Legion to something entirely different, including Combat, Demonology, and Survival. Of those, Survival is the only one that changed role, from ranged DPS to melee DPS. So by necessity it’s the most changed one and ranged Survival was very much deleted; Legion Survival retained absolutely nothing of ranged Survival beyond baseline elements of the class, and didn’t even inherit the ranged weapon.
And yes, people will generally be opposed to Blizzard removing their favourite playstyle from the game entirely. How unreasonable, right?
For the record, I never report anyone. But it doesn’t take a shadowy conspiracy of posters to mass report you when you routinely attack people for being “autistic”.
No, the forum moderators do not have a ranged Survival bias. I’ve been banned multiple times here, and usually with no name-calling at all. I was once banned for a week for saying, and I quote, “Non-Hunter chastises Hunters for not accepting a melee playstyle in place of a former ranged one. Must be a day ending in Y.”.
Firstly, let’s take a moment to appreciate the immaturity of this statement.
Secondly, this is a subjective matter, but I agree that “drastically changed” does not adequately describe what happened to Survival. “Drastically changed” to me implies that most things changed. Like I said earlier, Survival in Legion retained nothing from Survival in WoD, besides the few baseline Hunter abilities that survived (and they really were few). Nothing spec-specific about Survival made it into Legion. Even Serpent Sting, something that had been part of the class from the very beginning, was relegated to a talent and was no longer a ranged ability but a passive applied by a melee attack.
You know full well it was popular throughout many patch cycles and expansions before WoD. Keep in mind, by the way, that this is part of your defense of a spec that has only effectively existed in BFA, the most unpopular expansions.
Firstly: no. Rogues are typically less popular than Hunters in general and Survival was routinely one of the better represented specs in the game.
Nevertheless, some people really do have a problem with what happened to Combat and want that playstyle back. I sympathise with that. Nevertheless, Outlaw still retains some elements of Combat and it’s still a melee DPS like Combat, so it’s not as severe as Survival.
As much as you’re content with blatantly lying about it (because I know you have played long enough to know better), Survival was popular in many more tiers beyond just one in WoD. It was one of the most played specs in the very previous tier, Siege of Orgrimmar, which lasted a full year, just as an example. From 3.0 and Explosive Shot the spec was no stranger to being a popular choice among Hunters, all the way until 6.2 and beyond.
It really is a melee spec. It needs to be in melee for the overwhelming majority of its damage, much of the ranged damage comes from procs that require melee range, and the talent that increases your range increases it by a tiny amount. It’s a melee spec, through and through.
Ghorak puts effort behind his posts because he actually cares about the class. Meanwhile, you just come here to declare that the class is full of “whining kids” and “autists” until you get suspended yet again. You’re in no position to call others pseudointellectual and their posts half-baked.
Ghorak literally argues for keeping melee Survival and adding ranged Survival as a new spec.
You literally have nothing to go on other than what you feel some unspecified secretive group of people are doing. Typical conspiracy fantasy. If you attack people personally and call them immature names, it takes just one report for them to get you suspended. Yes, they have automated systems. In those cases you can ask a real person to review your ticket and they will reaffirm that you broke the ToS and the suspension will be upheld.
As for me: you know full well I like arguing with people on the forums. If I get someone banned their post gets removed and they can’t reply. So the discussion stops. That’s the opposite of what I want. For the record, there are a couple times I have reported someone, but only when I myself get reported and suspended and I feel the others in the thread were skirting the ToS worse than I allegedly was.
I’ve personally heard people demanding Survival nerfs (usually due to their arena CC) and I’ve seen Survival Hunters moaning about the spec not performing as well as they want on the discord.
Survival Hunters like to go on and on about how the spec is a paragon of perfect class design and it really starts to fall flat after a while, especially when the same people will demand Survival gets exclusive utilities and buffs to make it a desirable option v.s. the ranged specs in PvE. If it were so perfectly designed, where are the flocks of people coming to the spec? How is it that Blizzard pours more and more time and effort into the spec only for it to consistently amount to nothing more than a fringe niche outside of rated PvP, which itself is a niche corner of the game? What metric of “success” is there to point to here? Because it’s not a popular spec and it’s possibly the highest-maintenance spec for Blizzard, getting two back-to-back remakes in the past two expansions.
Oh, and it leeches from BM’s identity like nothing else, a situation going melee in the first place was explicitly intended to avoid.
If one likes the mindlessly easy DPS, BM is obviously the way to go.
I personally like a little more color and challenge…probably why Im still fuming about their taking Life Tap from Afflock.
To add, however, you have to admit that the 15 second CD on Survivals interrupt is worlds better than 24 seconds on BM.
That is, unless, youre a player who doesnt know the importance of interrupts.
He’s saying you cherry pick data and see what you want to see because you’re not trained in the handling of data.
He ain’t wrong.
“You can’t deny there was less terrorism before I began my career in terrorism”
You’re the primary source of “strife in the Hunter playerbase” on these forums through sheer volume. Give it a rest, lmao.
No, they can’t, because items in this game have lore associated with them. They’re not going to give a specs artifacts to other specs. I am 200% certain of that.
For someone that plays this game so much, you’d think you’d have noticed that if you unlocked alternate appearances for one spec, you also unlocked them for your other specs. Mage tower appearances aren’t the only artifact skins. The basic artifact skin is just as strong of an argument.
Ask me how I know you didn’t exist on the raiding scene prior to WoD
Rogues? Less popular than hunters? Ranged survival? More popular than combat?
I’m sure everyone believes you!
There’s nothing immature about saying its unwise to become involved in heated debates in a language you’re not fluent in.
Don’t go chasing waterfalls.
Au contraire, I think it’s quite the opposite of maturity to try to present your argument in favor of a specialization in a video game as if it were a scholarly thesis. A big part of maturity is understanding time, place, and context.
So you’re talking about/comparing Rogue specs only. Okay. Fair enough I guess…
And no, I don’t play rogue, haven’t touched one since late WotLK.
Yeah…sure…
Whether it has an ability or two which can be used from afar, does not change the fact that it is indeed a melee-spec, designed to focus primarily on the use of melee-weapons.
So many fancy words there.
Btw, you really need to look up what “wall-of-text” means and in what context people use it, and why.
No post I’ve ever written actually qualifies as a “wall-of-text” no matter how much you state otherwise.
It’s called feedback. If you don’t like it, then, sorry for you I guess.
Just 1 question…
What do you actually mean when you say “half-baked”?
And here you’re saying that you know what’s on my mind as well…
You’re wrong. But still, that is what you’re doing here.
Can’t handle huh?
Whatever led you to that conclusion?
Quite a funny sentence indeed.
So, you’re basically saying that only people from the UK are allowed to post on EU forums? Or/and, players from other countries as well, as long as they have perfect English?
You ain’t gonna find many posts on the EU then as, most EU players aren’t native English speakers nor do they write/speak English perfectly either.
Do you have anything to back up what you’re saying in your posts, like the above. Or do you just spout whatever pops up in your head, adjust it so it comes out as decently aggressive and somewhat offensive and call it a win?
Sure…
He claimed to have read more of my former posts(other than just the recent ones in this thread).
Weird how he missed that part…
Heh, yeah…
You might want to re-read your own posts a few times.
I’m totally dehumanizing you!
