The only Forsaken burning vision in Edge of Night has nothing to do with Garrosh.
The capital was suddenly under siege. King Wrynn stood beyond the burning remains of the zeppelin tower, drawing diagrams of the Undercity for his generals. He had stormed the city before; he was confident of victory.
Within the city walls, bonfires raged. Sylvanas seethed; the Alliance was already burning the corpses. No. Wait. She tried to make sense out of the clouded vision. The few Forsaken who remain are throwing themselves into the bonfires, she realized, rather than facing their executioners.
The point still sort of stands though- Garrosh actually does threaten to destroy them if they use the plague, which begs the question though… why didn’t he? Especially after she prevented him from gaining Gilneas.
I think blighting Gilneas was as much about protecting the forsaken from Garrosh as it was about preventing the alliance from going there.
And I’d say the protecting the forsaken is a bit higher of a priority than getting Gilneas. But that’s the point I’ve been trying to make, that she was forced into an action that at the very least she wasn’t ready to make on her own yet because Garrosh was trying to kill off the forsaken with this invasion.
The reason Sylvanas going to helya and attempting to enslave Eyir is such a bad thing in regards to Odyn is because… No one enough of Odyn’s character as a person to determine that he wouldn’t care about someone enslaving one of the highest members of his court. When you go on diplomatic or mostly diplomatic missions to ask someone of something you do so as politely as you can to curry as much favor as you can.
Failing to do so could earn you the ire of the person you want on your side and cause them to reject your request.
In this case Sylvanas made moves that… had Odyn not been such a… quite frankly strange character would have easily caused our request to be rejected. It’d be like if our first move when teaming up with the mechagnomes was to kidnap prince Erazim and experiment on him. Most people won’t find you trustworthy after such an act.
Yeah, i read you conflating Garrosh threatening Lydon with burning the UC down if he used plague in a page about what was going on with the Gilneas invasion with Sylvanas being aware of it. There’s no indication in the passage that quote comes from that says Sylvanas saw Garrosh’s threat, unlike the vision passages where it’s made clear that she’s observing it while in limbo.
All this is true, and ultimately part of why it was a good thing Genn did stop Sylvanas. But that also had nothing to do with why he attacked Sylvanas with the Skyfire.
Possibly, but at that point I think you’re starting to see Sylvanas as the first leader actively pushing back against Garrosh. He’s been openly antagonistic to her and her people already so she’s got the early seats to what the rest of the Horde starts experiencing in the lead up to Mists. So even if she was made aware of the threat she doesn’t care, and maybe doesn’t feel that Garrosh would be able to follow through on that threat.
If she didn’t feel like he could follow up on his threats then her leading the invasion of Gilneas is not a factor of being forced to do anything she didn’t want to.
Unless she didn’t feel quite so confident in how well they might stand up to the Alliance. Her vision did show the Alliance taking over the UC, and so it makes some sense to make a show of force to remind them that even if they do have the power to defeat them, they won’t come away from it unscathed.
Plus, she did want the port, even if she might not have chosen that time to make the attempt on her own, so why not give it a shot while they were already attacking it.
Additionally, even if Genn did try to present it that way, no one would buy the story, or care because we (either the horde or alliance) SOMEONE- did get the Aegis of Aggramar. Odyn being mad at Sylvanas would not have prevented the alliance from getting it.
Also, the Hyrja doesn’t like the alliance either. They came into Skold-Ashil slaughtering Valkyra. “we were killing you to SAVE you” wouldn’t fly.
I’m also more curious as to why Vol’jin didn’t do anything about it knowing it was a point of contention with the Alliance.
I don’t think that’s likely, given her immediate admission after burning Teldrassil was that the Alliance would come for the Undercity, which would be after said show of force in Gilneas and the War of the Thorns itself.
And excuses are something Horde apologists like to deal in.
It doesn’t matter who ordered it, SHE still carried out, WITHOUT Garrosh’s supervision. Therefore, the responsibility of the operation is purely on her shoulders. That’s like saying Dr. Mengele in WW2 was ordered by Hitler and the Na’zhi party to experiment and gas jews in concentration camps so he only takes partial responsibility for it.
No, the guy still killed and experimented upon thousands of jews, he’s still 100%responsible for his actions.
Because regardless it’s still 100% within reason that after constant betrayal after betrayal from Sylvanas, someone on the Alliance would have to put their foot down and conclude that she has been a constant thorn in the Alliances’ side for too long.
Well, yeah. You sure seem to think the opposite is true, and use the lamentation of Greymane’s attack Stormheim as reason to slaughter civilians en-masse.
What does being Warchief have ANYTHING to do with this? A title doesn’t excuse her of her crimes.
1.) Not at all. In fact, it makes Sylvanas the one lacking in accountability for how her past actions against these nations/groups may have garnered long-term consequences.
2.) You’re either using the term “mercenaries” incorrectly or you don’t know what a mercenary is. The Alliance isn’t aggressing upon Sylvanas for material wealth, they want justice for what was done to them.
3.) I fail to see how vigilantism is a bad thing in this case since both parties were not only attacked unprovoked, but have since been dealing with the long-term consequences of said attack such as both of them remaining refugees without a home. Greymane no longer having an heir-apparent and Rodgers losing all of her loved ones, and both remain to this day without ANY form of compensation for their respective losses.
No, this only makes it ever more clear that allowing Sylvanas to roam free and unpunished for her numerous crimes against the Alliance has been a problem they’ve neglected for too long and such a mistake allowed this war to be started.
To quote Anduin “Only one of us WANTED this war.”
Broken Shore really doesn’t matter here, the point is Sylvanas has been allowed to get away with her crimes against the Alliance for years, and only now has it become apparent that such ignorance was a mistake that cost many their lives.
I still believe it was her plan to use the newly created forsaken plague / blight on the Scourge, but it was Putress who did it on the alliance and horde troops as he was with the burning legion.
Although I’m sure there will be people who will do mental gymnastics to try and say that Sylvanas knew about the coup all along or something like that…
I’d say it’s pretty relevant when most of the crimes committed by the subject of this discussion involve both human experimentation and chemical weapons…
That’s rich coming from a guy with an incredibly skewed perspective of the Alliance. Your understanding of the faction is that of an infant and yet you have the audacity to tell me how my knowledge is little?
Unlike you, I actually play both factions, so unless you’re actually exposing yourself to the entire picture like myself, it’s best that you don’t try to attest to something you have little to no clue about.
Ok, and her use of the word is incorrect, cuz the Alliance player isn’t a mercenary, by any definition of the word.
So is will yours’ when Sylvanas inevitably gets her comeuppance in the end after her crimes inevitably catch up to her and must be made to answer for them. Both from the allies she’s discarded and from the Alliance.
