I recently tried out Survival and I enjoy it. I think the problem is that old survival in WoD was pretty fun.
I was a hunter main back then and played all three specs (well with BM I trolled with a melee build and still did amazing in bg’s somehow.), and while I loved sniping people as MM, survival just felt the best to play overall. It was the least clunky spec in the game for me and just felt nice, I dropped my hunter come Legion as I did not have fun with any of the specs after the rework.
Ironic considering all of Survival’s gameplay diversity right now comes from ranged abilities and it only has 2 generic physical melee abilities in its toolkit.
Lol. 2 of them don’t even exist yet and are flagrantly ripped off other classes (Fury of the Eagle, Spearhead). One is an underwhelming talented gap closer hardly anyone takes (Flanking Strikes). One is a talented replacement of another (Mongoose Bite). Another is a gap closer (Harpoon). You’re left with two of the most generic physical melee abilities possible (Raptor Strike, Carve) with talented replacements for either of them plus a gap closer.
Meanwhile the most iconic and significant parts of the tooltip are Wildfire Bomb and Serpent Sting, two elements completely unfitting of a melee spec, plus Kill Command which is just stolen from BM.
This is degenerate and ineffective class design that’s entirely a result of SV becoming melee. If SV were ranged they could cut the generic melee crap, cut the copying from BM, and focus on the aspects that are actually unique and interesting instead of wasting years trying to make SV work while basing its identity on a literal handicap.
I can’t talk about BfA but in Legion SV was a real chore to play and it had nothing to do with it being melee. So personally I swapped to MM or BM for raids. First patch of BfA was a performance issue for me so I played range aswell, then stopped caring about raids.
Old SV by contrast was pretty much a 40y melee with very straightforward gameplay.
I think people are way too focused on raid representation. As I said already, SV didn’t see play in WoD CMs for example (I was wrong for MoP btw).
Anyway, with the new trees they could revive that old SV gameplay as an option for MM without huge changes so I think we should redirect our efforts in that direction ?
They(we) want the core that was RSV back as a foundation to build upon, just like it was done with all other specs, going into Legion. A convenient thing to forget when you make your arguments. Actually, I can’t say whether you’ve chosen to forget, or if you just ignore it, considering this post. It wouldn’t just be 2 skills and a passive, as you say. But since you don’t agree with what the theme of RSV was, you’ve now gone back to saying that it shouldn’t exist because “it only had X skills”, no matter how much more you could add to it.
You tell me, bringing the core of RSV back, + anything else you can see below here, which is there to add further depth and definement to what the spec was designed to be about. Feel free to tell me how you could implement all this into BM/MM, while keeping their respective core themes intact.
Core Abilities
[Cobra Shot] - Instant cast
A fast shot that causes X Physical damage.
Generates 7 Focus.
[Explosive Shot] - 20 Focus - Instant cast - 10 sec recharge - 2 charges
Fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 4 sec.
[Black Arrow] - 30 Focus - Instant cast - 30 sec cooldown
Fire a shot infused with dark energy at the target, dealing Shadow damage over 12 sec.
The periodic damage-effect applied by Black Arrow can be stacked up to 3 times on the same enemy.
[Serpent Sting] - 15 Focus - Instant cast
Fire a shot that poisons your target, causing them to take Nature damage over 15 sec.
[Arcane Shot] - 20 Focus - Instant cast
A quick shot that causes X Arcane damage.
[Multi-Shot] - 40 Focus - Instant cast
Fires several missiles, hitting up to 5 targets within 8 yards of your current target for X Physical damage.
Multi-Shot applies Serpent Sting to all targets hit.
[Immolation Trap] - Instant cast - 1 minute cooldown
Hurls a fire trap to the target location that will burn the first enemy to approach for X Fire damage over 20 sec. The trap will exist for 1 min.
Class-wide abilities
[Kill Shot] - 10 Focus - Instant cast - 10 sec recharge - 1 Charge
You attempt to finish off a wounded target, dealing X Physical damage.
Only usable on enemies with less than 20% health.
Major Cooldown
[Munition Tactics] - 20 sec duration - 2 minute cooldown.
Increases your haste by X% and instantly triggers Lock & Load(Passive). When Explosive Shot is used during Munition Tactics, this resets the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow.
Any time Explosive Shot deals damage to a target affected by Black Arrow, during Munition Tactics, this will cause the periodic damage effect applied by Black Arrow to spread to nearby enemies as well.
(This effect is replaced by a different passive effect when engaged in instanced PvP; If your Black Arrow is at any time dispelled or otherwise removed from an enemy target, this instantly resets the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow.)
Mastery
[Mastery Bonus: Toxicology] - Increases all non-physical damage dealt by X%, based on Mastery.
Passive Effects
[Lone Wolf] - Increases your damage by 10% when you do not have an active pet.
[Lock and Load] - Periodic damage dealt by Black Arrow and Immolation Trap have a chance to cause your next Explosive Shot to cost no Focus and trigger no cooldown.
[Trap Mastery] - Tar Trap now slows approaching enemies by an additional X%, and the effect sticks to the enemy for 3 seconds after they have left the tar.
The trigger radius, as well as the radius of the residual tar patch left by your Tar Trap, is increased by 25%.
Freezing Trap can now be triggered manually by the hunter once placed, causing it to form a fragile Ice Block that you can stand behind to protect yourself from frontal attacks until shattered. The ice block shatters after 8 seconds or once it has sustained enough damage.
Manually triggering it requires you to stand in close vicinity to the trap.
[Serpent’s Focus] - Using Cobra Shot several times in a row will increase the amount of Focus generated by each shot by 4. Stacking up to 3 times.
[Serpent Spread] - Targets hit by Multi-Shot are also afflicted by Serpent Sting equal to 9 sec of it’s duration.
[Exotic Munitions] - Your Auto Attacks have a chance to increase the remaining duration of either Serpent Sting, Black Arrow or Immolation Trap by 5 seconds, on an enemy affected by either of these periodic damage effects.
Utility/defensives
Includes all other abilities, such as [Tar Trap][Frost Trap][Aspect of the Turtle][Concussive Shot][Counter Shot][Tranquilizing Shot][Misdirection][Pet Utility][Exhilaration][Disengage][Feign Death], and more.
Note that I would prefer if(on a class-wide basis)
[Posthaste] - becomes a baseline effect. [Master’s Call] - becomes a baseline ability again. [Pet Specializations] - Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning, if they were changeable again. [Revive Pet] - Cast time brought down to 2 seconds again. [Camouflage] - becomes a baseline ability again.
Talents
– Level 15 –
[Ever Burning] - If you fire Explosive Shot into an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the remaining duration of the previous charge is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds.
An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.
Exotic Munition-procs now also increases the remaining duration of any active Explosive Shot charges you have on the current target by 3 seconds.
[Noxious Stings] - Increases the periodic critical damage of your Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Black Arrow by 25%, and Serpent Sting now deals increased damage against targets below 30% health.
[Fusion Shot] - (Replaces Cobra Shot) - 1.5s cast time(castable while moving) - 6 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Fire a charged shot into the target, dealing Physical damage.
When your next ability that deals periodic damage hits the target, this triggers a volatile fusion immediately causing it to erupt dealing additional instant damage equal to 40% of it’s total duration. The target will take additional damage of the same type as the ability used to trigger the fusion for the next 12 sec.
Generates 25 Focus.
– Level 25 –
[Death Adder] - Serpent Sting also does instant damage equal to 30% of it’s total periodic effect. Also applies to Serpent Spread(Passive).
Every time Serpent Sting deals damage, you have a chance to gain 3 Focus.
If the passive effect “Exotic Munitions” procs while your Serpent Sting is active on the target, this also triggers the Death Adder-effect.
[Predator] - Casting Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, Serpent Sting, or Multi-Shot reduces the Focus cost and increases the damage of your next Arcane Shot by 30%. This effect stacks.
[Viper Venom] - Whenever Serpent Sting deals damage, there’s a chance that this can cause any other periodic damage effects you have applied to the target to instantly deal damage equal to one tick of their total effect.
If this proc occurs when the target is affected by Black Arrow, this will instantly refresh it’s remaining duration and restore 8 Focus back to you.
– Level 30 –
[Trailblazer] - [Natural Mending]
[Bestial Dicipline] - (Replaces Camouflage as a talent choice) - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.
Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%.
When Lone Wolf(Passive) is active, you continue to heal for the same amount of health.
– Level 35 –
[Cluster Shot] - 25 Focus - Instant cast - 15 sec cooldown.
Fire a shot which explodes on impact, instantly dealing Physical damage to the primary target and all other nearby enemies, and causing them to bleed for an additional X Physical damage over 3 sec.
Explosive Shot-charges which are still active on any target(s) hit by Cluster Shot will instantly erupt, dealing all remaining damage to the affected target(s) at once.
[Wildfire] - 8 sec duration
The periodic damage effect applied by Immolation Trap will now spread to any enemy standing in close range to an already burning target. As long as an enemy is within range of another enemy affected by Wildfire or Immolation Trap, the Wildfire will continue to spread.
[T.N.T.] - Explosive Shot now deals damage to all enemies near the affected target.
– Level 40 –
[Born to be Wild] - [Binding Shot]
[Adaption] - (Replaces Posthaste as a talent choice) Getting hit with an incapacitating effect(Stun/Fear), reduces the remaining cooldown of your Aspect of the Turtle by 30%. This effect has an internal cooldown of X sec.
Aspect of the Turtle is now usable when incapacitated.
When rooted or slowed, the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is reduced by 15 seconds. Aspect of the Cheetah frees you from movement impairing effects and you cannot be slowed below 100% movement speed while it’s active.
– Level 45 –
[Spitting Cobra] - Cobra Shot now deals an additional X% damage as Nature damage and extends the remaining duration of Serpent Sting on the enemy target by X sec.
Cobra Shot now has a high chance of generating double Focus when fired.
[Exothermia] (Requires talent: Fusion Shot)
Increases your critical strike chance against any enemy you hit with Fusion Shot by X% for 12 sec. Dealing Fire damage to the target extends this effect even further.
Fusion Shot generates an additonal 10 Focus over 5 sec.
[Pre-Heat] - The cooldown of Immolation Trap is reduced by 5 seconds every time Immolation Trap deals critical damage to the enemy target. In addition, if an enemy target dies while affected by Immolation Trap, it’s cooldown is reset.
[Intoxication] - Your ranged Auto Attacks have a chance to grant you 2 stacks of Intoxication. When Black Arrow is refreshed or when it expires from an enemy, you gain this effect as well.
Intoxication
When you use an ability that deals instant damage, it has a 100% chance to be a critical strike.
When you use an ability that deals periodic damage, damage caused by this ability is increased by an additional X%.
– Level 50 –
[Rapid Recuperation] - Damage caused by Explosive Shot have a chance to reduce the remaining cooldown of Munition Tactics by 1 sec.
Whenever Lock & Load procs, this causes the next Explosive Shot fired to have a 100% chance for each of it’s ticks to reduce the remaining cooldown of Munition Tactics by 1 sec.
Catalysis - Duration 10 sec.
Black Arrow increases any Fire-damage you deal to an enemy by X%.
In addition, Explosive Shot-charges granted by Lock & Load extend the remaining duration of Black Arrow by 1 second every time they deal damage to the affected target.
[Resourcefulness] - Reduces the cooldown of all traps and Black Arrow by 20%. Your Freezing Trap and Tar Trap both have a 100% chance to proc Lock & Load when triggered.
Freezing Trap when triggered manually can now withstand 100% more damage before shattering.
When an enemy breaks free from your Freezing Trap, they will take an additional 10% damage from all sources for the next X seconds.
Critical damage dealt by Immolation Trap is increased by X%.
Bonus effects/Bonus Traits
Got no good names for these traits/bonuses yet but…just wanted to add in some potential fun bonus effects that are spec specific. They can be tied to things such as Set Bonuses or something similar to Artifact Traits/Azerite Traits of the past.
(1)Lock and Load now grants 2 charges of Explosive Shot when it procs, instead of 1.
(2) When you get a Exotic Munitions-proc. It will grant you an additional bonus effect depending on which periodic damage-effect it benefits.
Serpent Sting - Until the current Serpent Sting debuff expires or is refreshed, every time it deals damage to the target, you instantly gain 3 Focus.
Black Arrow - The remaining cooldown of Black Arrow is instantly reset.
Immolation Trap - Your next Immolation Trap will deal an extra X% damage and will also have an increased X% chance to critically hit the affected target.
(3)Arcane Shot now triggers the passive effect “Exotic Munitions” when it hits an enemy target.
Thats a lot of effort for summarize two skills and a passive.
I got it you put a lot of skills there, but the gameplay will be explosive shot, black arrow, serpert sting and focus generator…
All this content is expressed in the frustration of casting aimed shot and channeling rapid fire, same spec with 2 different abilities.
I also don’t like the aimed shot gameplay, but the right thing is to give MM the option to choose not to play like that, instead of reworking an entire spec just to insert an explosive shot gameplay.
